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The Drama Is Real With Bart Millard

Here’s the cool thing about Bart Millard from MercyMe. He is hilarious. Probably because he has 5 teenagers. You’ll hear all about that and the fact, “The drama is real.” Plus, we love hearing about his new music and the other passions he rarely talks about.

Special thanks to Northwest University for sponsoring the Passion Meets Purpose Podcast!

Interview Links:


Bart Millard: Talk about where you’ve been and what you’ve gone through and that’s what evangelism is, is just telling the story what Jesus has done and just passing it on.  I don’t want to hear the next new idea, I want to hear what changed your life. You know, I want to hear what’s impacted you,  cause you,  you’ll be more sincere and people like, oh yeah, they’ve been through this, you know?

Sarah Taylor: That’s Bart, Millard, and you’ve guessed it. He is our featured guest on our third episode of the Passion Meets Purpose podcast brought to you by Northwest University. I’m your host. My name is Sarah Taylor. So here’s the cool thing about Bart, lead singer of MercyMe, he’s hilarious. His Instagram is, uh, he himself is it’s probably cause he’s got like five teenagers, which we’re definitely gonna talk about.

Um, I also appreciate just how open he is to sorta telling similar stories. Like over the past 20 years, everyone wants to know about the origin of, I Can Only Imagine, but it’s because it’s such a profound story, um, which like they’ve made a movie about, um, I get a chance to ask Bart about his other passions, which is actually how we begin.

Right. We all know music is one. What’s the other step.

Okay. Bart. Well, it’s called the passion meets purpose podcast, and everyone knows that music is your passion, but I need to know something else. Just kind of off the get go, that is a hobby or something you’re super passionate about besides music.

Bart Millard: Hmm. Um, uh, uh, a hobby would be a golf, but I’m not good at it. So that’s embarrassing or whatever. The biggest one, I, uh, before I started MercyMe, I was in college and was wanting to be a graphic artists, like, uh, like, uh, like Pixar wasn’t a thing yet we’re that old, but it was like cartoons. Like I said, I was obsessed with that

and so that’s still, that’s probably my pro my secret hobby. Like I draw a lot, like what I’m doing and stuff like that, but I don’t know anybody.

Sarah Taylor: I’ve heard that you’re a closet do learn and you don’t show anybody. Why don’t you show, why don’t you let us see a little bit.

Bart Millard: I don’t know. I mean, I just, I, I don’t know.

It’s just something I’ve always done. And, and, you know, it’s like now, like with an iPad, I’ll draw it and then just erase it and just draw, you know, my kids see it and they, they’re kind of the same way. And they’re like, wait, you know, well, they’ve always know I can draw, but there’s always the young one that it clicks.

Like, I didn’t know you could draw or whatever. It’s the thing I would do. Like, I’ll be a grandfather doing that for my grandkids one day and that’s about it. Like, you know, but I do, I’m a huge fan of like art and all that whole thing. Like he got me into comic books and all that kind of stuff when I was in high school.

And just because of the, the graphic side of it. But yeah, that’s a. That’s uh, I don’t know. I don’t want to say it’s a secret. It’s just, just something always done, I guess.

Sarah Taylor: Well, and I also heard that, like, you know, it took you years and years to finally write, Oh, I can only imagine, but it was because you would, write

I Can Only Imagine on notebooks. So you just kind of process and you write it down on the paper. And then eventually you were thinking about writing a song and you saw it like so many times on your paper. You’re like, okay, I guess I’m writing this song.

Bart Millard: Yeah. When I was, when I was before my dad died, like, um, You know, I guess most people practice.

Like if you, I don’t know if you’re ever kids said they’re trying to learn what your autograph would be and it wasn’t. Okay. It wasn’t because I thought I was be famous it’s because I wanted to see what my name would look like if I did a painting, like I wanted to get it just right to put on a piece of art.

And so if I was on the phone or whatever, and I had a pen in my hand, I’d just, I would write, I would work on my signature nonstop. Then after my dad died, my grandmother at the grave site was like, I can only imagine what your dad’s seeing now. Something about that just hit to where I immediately just started writing.

I can imagine instead of my name for years, like, but that my dad died in 91. I didn’t write a imagine until 99. And so, uh, so when I was looking for a blank page to write, to finish writing or start writing that song, you know, I felt like I had eight years of I can only imagine on EV like, I didn’t have a blank page anywhere.

Like, it was frustrating. Like I was like, are you kidding me? I need a clean sheet and I’ve ruined them all. And, and at some point I was like, Oh, are, you know, maybe that’s not supposed to be writing. And, but it even took a second. I’m a little thick-headed. So it took me a second to go. I can’t find a clean page.

What’s wrong with me. Yeah. So, yeah,

Sarah Taylor: I think that’s actually, um, something that could be encouraging to someone who’s listening to this podcast and thinking that they’ve got that passion or kind of that inkling, like you had the first you had the title for eight years. So how would you encourage someone that’s like, just something’s marinating for a long time.

That time gap.

Bart Millard: Yeah. I mean, I wish I could say that it was intentional, but like, um, you know, in those eight years I went from my dad died 91. We started MercyMe in 94. And then it was a lot of writing, a lot of bad songs and, and then covering a lot of worship songs for camps cause that’s kinda what paid the bills was doing church games every year.

And it wasn’t until we kind of got tired of just singing Lord, I lift your name on high, over and over. And it was like, man, what if we, what if we tried to write our own worship songs and teach them to these camps, you know, back then it was had to fit on PowerPoint verse and chorus and maybe had hand signs and, um, And so that was our first attempt

was that album that. We had all these songs that were litter, that formula verse and the chorus repeated a hundred times, didn’t make for a great record, but we had this weird, uh, pet peeve, not superstition, but, uh, we had 10 songs and we never want an even 10, for some reason we thought 11 looked cooler, so we need one more song.

So that’s why I wrote, imagine I was looking for a sheet, uh, a blank sheet wrote it, it didn’t fit the worship formula. Like you would. Oh, I got a PowerPoint, so we never sang it for a year. And it’s, I wish I could say that yeah, my, you know, I, I, it was marinating for that long and it was time to do it, but I, you know, I think if, if I could encourage anybody, it would be like, you know, sometimes if you’re, if you’re doing what we’re doing, sometimes we, we, we can look a little too hard for inspiration or something to say when, uh, there are things or

that have kind of proven themselves in your own life. And in that song, that, that, that phrase had brought me comfort or intrigued me for a really long time. And so it was a no brainer to, yeah, this is where I should go, but it wasn’t obvious. Like I didn’t, I didn’t, I was like, Oh, maybe, maybe that’s most let’s talk about like, yeah.

And so. I don’t know. Cause yeah, cause I probably would’ve said I need to find something new that that gets me excited and I can imagine didn’t get me excited then it’s not enough. Right? Yeah. But then it’s like, Oh, or is your perspective of, you know, find something to say that has been proven and brought you comfort and joy and peace in your own life.

And, and uh, and so that’s kind of, that’s kind of where that came from and it’s kind of become, it’s kind of how we treat everything that we do. Like, uh, you know, it’s, I feel like every song up until like, say I want our lace when every song is written out a personal experience for me. And it’s, it’s like, it’s almost been everything

every song has been. It’s been like a it’s it’s already been tested. If you would like I’m singing about how faith has brought me through, not about how man, maybe this will work, you know, if that makes sense. And, and so, yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, talk about where you’ve been and what you’ve gone through

and that’s what evangelism is, is just, is relaying is this is telling the story, what Jesus has done and just passing it on. And, and it’s like, I think the same thing is like, you know, I don’t want to hear the next new idea. I want to hear what changed your life. You know, I want to hear what’s impacted you, you know?

Cause you, you you’ll be more sincere and people like, Oh yeah, they’ve been through this, you know, it’s so funny. Cause like, uh, you know, our kids, I got five kids and when they were little one, I have one kid come in from playing outside and he’s like, Oh, I almost hurt myself. And I was like, what? You know, looked like it.

Then you have the next one that comes in that has, that looked like he almost died and you’re like, he almost hurt himself. Like, you know, and they’ve been through it and they’re just trying to get a little bit of attention. I was like, get out of here that dude, what happened? Yeah. He can’t blink and he can’t breathe and I’m like, that dude saw Jesus and it’s like, I don’t want to hear what that guy has to say.

It’s kind of the same thing you can tell when someone’s been affected by it and then somebody just trying to say something just to be heard.

Sarah Taylor: Yeah. Let’s talk for a second. About those five kids. Are they, are they all spanning the teenager age now?

Bart Millard: No, not all of them. Sam, my oldest is 19 Gracie 16. Charlie is 15.

Sophie is 12 and Miles just turned 10 last week. So they’re getting clear closing in on us. But, uh, yeah, we’ve, we’ve gotten our taste of teenagers enough, but, uh, you know, the other two are just on the cusp.

Sarah Taylor: What, what has that taught you about just taking things in stride?

Bart Millard: Ah, man. Um, it’s. I don’t know what it’s taught me.

I mean, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s just a whole, I mean, it’s all amazing and it’s all horrible at the same time. It’s like, you know, when they’re little, it’s just different and, and, and, you know, and you’re still pretty cool when they’re at a certain age and then, then they become teenagers and, and, and we still w I mean, we get along great, but it’s just like, they have more opinions and it’s like, eh, it’s just, it’s a different thing on one side.

It’s awesome. Because, you know, I can. I can reason with them a little better. And the conversations we’re having is just, it’s a whole different thing that I absolutely love. And, and, um, and, but at the same time, it’s like, the drama is very real. The, you know, and it’s and yeah. It’s boy, girl, boy, girl, boy.

And so. If you feel like you might have one figured out, then let’s just flip the whole thing completely. Yeah. Let’s just not ever use that information again, because there’s no quote of that. And by the time Charlie is the age of Sam, I’ve forgotten because I spent a whole season with Gracie. So it’s like, it’s pointless.

And it is. It’s like some, I heard somebody go, man, you have to wear a different hat. I was like, man, you need a different house, a different name. Everything has changed. Like, and there’s, and there’s, there’s beauty in being a father to a daughter and the same with my son, but they are different languages completely.

And, um, and so, yeah, it’s so it’s been a, we kind of laugh about how it’s just like, this can’t be real like this, it can’t, this is so crazy trying to parent these kids, but at the same time, it’s like, wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s, it’s chaotic and awesome. We call it the circus. You don’t want to leave.

And man, during the pandemic, that’s definitely the case. Like we’ve gotten so close just together through all this. And uh, and so, yeah, it’s. Yeah, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s pretty, it’s pretty awesome. Pretty great. I mean, I’m just sitting there thinking that Sam man, he’s getting to the point to where, you know, he, he’s not far off from maybe getting married one day and it’s like, Oh geez.

Another, you know, it’s another chap, another phase. And it’s they go by so fast and. You think I’m, maybe I’ll get it figured out and you don’t, they just go to the next phase, like, Oh, great. All right, let’s try this. Start over. Let’s reset. Yeah, but we do love it. We do love it. It’s so much. And, and, uh, my kids are, they’re unbelievable and, um, and all in their own separate ways.

And the only thing I feel bad about is just, I,  I want more time to give to them. That’s even with nothing to do for the last year, then work on a record. But, uh, but it’s like, they, they’re such amazing people. They deserve more time from both of us is what we say. And yeah, they’re great.

Sarah Taylor: That is Bart, Millard so much more with him ahead, but first, a quick heartfelt, sincere thank you to our friends at Northwest University.

They’re the ones that make the Passion Meets Purpose podcast possible. Northwest University is a faith based community. They’ve got expert professors that have been equipping students to be effective leaders in their field since 1934. And they offer undergraduate and graduate programs in person and online, which means they’re prepared to help you pursue your dreams

even during a pandemic. They say your future isn’t canceled. In fact, it’s just beginning. And right now there’s a tuition freeze at Northwest University. Meaning your tuition bill is unchanged for the 20 2122 school year. In fact, their tuition remains lower than all other Christian schools in Washington.

And they’ve got low room and board rates as well, which saves you thousands of dollars. And Northwest University has technology majors. They’ve got this brand new state-of-the-art technology studio. It’s open. Their majors include UX design, data science, video production, audio production, and computer science.

And those programs are in addition to their already diverse offering of top programs in business nursing, education, sciences, communication, psychology music, humanities, and more. So again, my heartfelt thanks to Northwest University. Now, back to our conversation with Bart Millard.

You have great facial expressions.

You communicate a lot without words. When you are in your car on Instagram, just escaping from the pandemic, talking to your phone. I think a lot of people have had moments like that.

Bart Millard: Yup. Yup. Yeah. Oh, we were laughing the other day. Cause like, they were like, Oh man, I saw that you said that you stay in your car or whatever.

It’s like, man, that’s that’s every Tuesday. What are you talking about? It’s not something new. I just decided to, I just thought, I bet everybody else does this. And I’ll be at the studio and, Shannon will be doing something we’ll kind of end up at home about the same time or she’ll be there before me and I’ll see the tail lights.

I’m like, ah, she’s in her office. And so I’ll pull up right next to her. I’m like you going in first? Like, no you’re going in. And we’re like, yeah, Nah, I forget, you know, they’re fine. We’ve put all the sharp objects away. They’re good. So it’s like, it’s it’s you got to have a chance to breathe. I’m a better parent for it.

Sarah Taylor: I love it. You said that you are passionate about golf, not that good, but in fantasy land, let’s pretend that you had more time and all of a sudden you were, you know, we were doing good enough that you got to have your dream foursome on your dream course.

Bart Millard: Oh. Uh, my dream foursome would be. Like, um, it would probably be, I don’t know who it’d be.

Uh, let’s see my dream foursome would probably be like, uh, I just, I love, I love the laugh. And so I, you know, like, so it’d probably be three other comedians or like Nate Bargatze and you know, I don’t know who else, uh, you know, Seinfeld I’d be with him or whatever, just, and I don’t want any good golfers.

I just wanna, you know, I just want to laugh. It’s not about the game. And then I would, I, the dream is to play Augusta for the Masters is that’s, that’s like, that’s the, uh, the Holy grail that it’s impossible to get to, but just nobody that’s super serious. Like I am the reason I’m not good at golf, so I can’t stop laughing.

It’s just a joke. Like. If I get, if I start getting angry or competitive, then I actually stopped playing because I just don’t want to be, I don’t want to be that guy. Like I have no desire to learn, to play, to be it’ll just make me mad. You know what I mean? Like I’m never going to master it, but if I think I

have a chance of being decent. That’s that’s like, that’s like being addicted to something I’ll be just angry most of the time. And so I’m like, I like just thinking that I’m a punchline on the golf course and enjoying that.

Sarah Taylor: I think another person who you probably laugh with is, uh, and we just had him on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, Olympic figure skater, Scott Hamilton.

And I know that you guys have a tight friendship. Um, okay. He invited you to sing it, escape thing. And that led to Sheryl Crow looking you in the eye and saying, mind if I join you on, imagine you want to talk to me about how that was.

Bart Millard: Yeah. See it freaked me out. It was funny. Cause it was actually, she. She first, the first thing she asked to do was we were, we were doing imagine, I think even if was the other song.

And, um, the first time when I met her, I was, we were soundcheck and she, she first asked you to sing on, even if, and, uh, no, no, I’m sorry. She did ask about, imagine. I was like, of course. Yeah. And then she, but I figured if she’s going to know me at all, it’ll be that song like that, th that song doesn’t count.

Like, you know, people heard the song don’t know who sings it. Then she’s like, Hey, could I sing on evening? If also I was like, wait a minute. Now we’re getting a little more in the catalog. And then, and it was funny because like, During soundcheck, they have these teleprompters for whoever cause there’s so many songs going on.

Well, the teleprompter didn’t work. And so I’ve literally kind of looked at her like, you know, don’t sweat it when it gets back on and start singing. Well, as soon as the song started, she ran with it and knew every word to the song, like by memory. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, this is freaking me out.

And she told me afterwards that it’s her and her sisters Anthem when her sister was this during the whole cancer stuff, eight years ago. And she goes, we sing it every day and I was like, are you kidding me? And so, yeah. Yeah. It’s some of the coolest, like moments that I’ve had musically have been because of Scott Hamilton in that

that fundraiser, man, I’ve played with some random people and you know, wanted to throw up. I was so nervous, but then just had a blast and yeah, he’s a sweetheart, man. It’s like, we, we don’t go very long without having breakfast or lunch at some point. And, uh, yeah, he’s, he’s one of the he’s, he’s literally the nicest human being on the planet, I think.

Sarah Taylor: Yeah. And ridiculously optimistic. Like he talks about having three brain tumors as if, you know, just casually over lunch.

Bart Millard: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There’s so many things that I’ve done that I would have talked myself out of. If it wasn’t for him going, why wouldn’t you do it? Like, what’s the big deal. Uh, like, uh, you know, like after the movie, like I had different opportunities to get more involved in kind of movie stuff, but I, I never, I didn’t have any other than it was my story,

I didn’t make that movie. Like I don’t, I was just around it. And then people are saying, well, it’s about you. Like, here’s a script for like to do this. I’m like, do what? I don’t know what you’re talking about. But in that I was telling Scott that, you know, talking about being a comic book nerd back in the day and just like, yeah, somebody, they asked if you have any movie ideas.

And I was like, I don’t know. It’s like, uh, there was this one thing, a comic book thing I did years ago, but that’s silly goes, no, it’s not. And he’s like, you know, my friend just wrote Wonder Woman and he’s never, you know, all that kind of stuff. And to where I was like, okay, I guess I’ll, you know, I’ll let somebody know that it exists or whatever, to where, you know, now it’s becoming a comic book and there there’s people that are interested in the brand, possibly stuff like that

that’s just, just out there that I would never, I would talk myself out of it and say, nah, it’s kind of, like you said, why don’t people see your drawings now? There’s a lot of that stuff that no one’s going to see. And Scott’s one of those guys like, then why, what are you doing for like, you know, Y you know, all they can do is say no, and, and it’s like, your life doesn’t depend on it succeeding, you have a career.

And I was like, all right. And so he’s like, man, don’t , don’t check out. He goes, come up crazier ideas. You’re not too old or whatever. And it’s just his attitude. And it’s like, it’s very, yeah.

Sarah Taylor: That’s awesome. Um, all right. New music from you just released. Couldn’t decide if it was inhale or exhale. So you put them both together.

Talk to me about all these songs written in a cabin.

Bart Millard: Yeah, we, uh, um, uh, it originally had a different album title. It’s it’s been two years in the making. We almost had it finished. We’re getting close and then the pandemic hit. And so. We kind of scrapped it and start over. Cause it’s like, we, you know, there’s no, I mean, songs are gonna come out of the season.

So it just felt weird putting an album out right before the pandemic hits. And, and so, and it also, we stretch it out so that we had something to do and a place to go and work every day. And because it felt like we had purpose and just a schedule, if you will. And so the original, the original album title, I think, was spaceman back in the day.

It’s why they’re almost home video. That almost home was the actual first single, which will be a year and a half old when the record comes out. And, um, and it was just this idea of kind of, you know, not of this world thing. And then when all this hit, it was like, Everything just changed. And I remember we kept saying, man, I just want to make a record to where it gives people a chance just to breathe and just like, okay,

kind of reflect on this. And you know, even people that have gone through the hardest thing, just, just give them a chance to be able to see that somehow God’s in this. And, and so we kept saying just it. So it’s, I think originally the idea was this, it was this inhale exhale moment to where we were talking about.

At one point it was two albums. One was called inhale, exhale, but inhale by itself sounds like not a good Christian record. It’s like, it’s like we’re smokers or whatever. So it felt weird by itself. And then we had different ideas and then just said, man, I think the album is just, let’s just call it inhale, exhale.

It’s just, and, and the approach on the album was. In the spring. Um, like everybody, like, I kinda describe it this way. When touring shut down, it’s like we’re all in the Titanic and it was starting to sink and we all jumped in the lifeboat called YouTube at the same time and just started pummeling people with so much

information and performances and you know, the next, this one’s heavier than the one before. And it was always these gut wrenching. It was like watching the notebook like 15 times a day is what it felt like. And it was so intense and it was sincere. Don’t get me wrong, but it was like, you know, you’re just getting hit from every direction.

And so we stayed out of the way we were like, man, you know, we kinda just didn’t know what to say. And, but then at one point we put out, hurry up and wait, would this video of me just in my pajamas, like, stuck in a cabin and we want to do something. It was funny because it was just like, that was not something you were seeing a lot of.

And, and so that’s, and then we’re in, we’re in the middle of making the album and it was like, our attitude was kind of the same as like, Our, our, our motto jokingly became, if it doesn’t rip their heart out, make sure it makes them dance. And, uh, and that’s kinda, instead of leaning on some of the even ifs and stuff, there’s a couple of moments that are, that are kind of intense if you will, or worshipful what I’m going to call it.

But most of it is more upbeat. Like it’s, you know, we want people to smile and just like, You know, find themselves, you know, dancing at a red light in their car and not realizing it. It was, that was the kind of the approach we took that that feels like exhaling and kind of letting this go and, and just, I mean, it’s great to worship and be sincere,

don’t get me wrong, but man, if we ever need a time to go, Oh yeah, that’s why it’s good to be alive then, uh, you know, I feel like that’s now. And so that was our approach on the album. It’s just to, you know, lighthearted, and it still has purpose and it there’s truth to the songs, but it was like, yeah, man, let’s just, and literally, if we weren’t dancing in the control room, we wouldn’t, it didn’t go on the record.

And so, uh, if we didn’t find ourselves having fun with it, it didn’t go on the record. And so we’ll see. Apparently 16 songs we did did like, so we’ll see if everybody else likes.

Sarah Taylor: I like that dynamic range that you all have as a band to be able to go deep, but also go super humorous. It kind of makes me think, you know, if anyone ever saw you backstage in our arena before you sing, even if you’re probably riding a scooter.

Bart Millard: We, yes, there’s absolutely.

You’re probably priority sooner. Or we were just getting in from, you know, last minute, you know, bright for the show starts because we were doing something, trying to jump it off a ramp or something that a 12 year old does. Like that’s. Yeah, it’s very childish when we’re on the road, but it’s, I wouldn’t trade it for the world, but it’s yeah.

People are like, man, are you, are you having a super deep Bible study before you come out on stage and sing? Imagine? And we’re like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We’re, we’re doing, we’re not doing that. We’ve, you know, we built a ramp. We were trying to jump the catering table. Well, there’s no telling what we’re doing, but it’s like, yeah.

And like, well, how do you do that? I was like, man, this is an overflow of a life with Christ. This is not, not now. It’s not my tiny, my act together. It better be to get along before I go on stage. And, and so, yeah, we just, we just loved being around each other. It’s we’re a bunch of children, literally a bunch of children.

Sarah Taylor: Um, I think that’s honestly, it’s one of my favorite things about following you on Instagram is your sense of humor. It really is. In fact, I think that’s what I want our final question to be about is just the gift of that laughter is like, it’s a spiritual gift. Like it gets us through some of the hardest

times. And, um, maybe you can talk about, uh, when your buddy, Tim Timmins, he did something that made you laugh. I think you had COVID so you were in isolation and he, and his whole family showed up in your car.

Bart Millard: Yeah, I was, um, I didn’t have COVID yet. I was. That was the first time where I’d been exposed to COVID so you had to be  quarantined.

And so, so there’s nothing worse than feeling a hundred percent healthy and having to be locked up in your room. And so, yeah, so his whole family decided to come see us and, and they would stay on the front yard and just, and, and, you know, were waving at me and singing to me like Christmas carolers or whatever.

And, and, uh, yeah, there’s, uh, Tim’s one of my dearest friends and there’s not many days go by that he’s not doing something. To make me laugh or vice versa. But, uh, but yeah, it’s like, yeah, it’s when you’re doing life with somebody like that, there’s, there’s, there’s not a ton of serious moments going on, which is kind of the way we like it.

But yeah, they’re always doing something and I don’t, I have, gosh, I don’t know why that was so random. His kids were, his boys were like had wigs on and just, it was random, but, uh, yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, but it was, it was much needed, man. Cause I was going crazy, but there’s, there’s a ton of times where he’s done that kind of stuff to,

yeah. We’re, I mean, we’re really close to where he knows when things are off and, and he’s like, he knows how he knows, you know, when to, it went to, uh, When to enter when to interfere and, uh, and like, Hey man, are things good or whatever. And so he’s one of my dearest friends. Yeah.

Sarah Taylor: I love that. We all just need a handful of friends that know when to interfere. Our thanks, to Bart Millard in this week’s Passion Meets Purpose podcast.

My big takeaway is obviously I love that his friends Scott Hamilton asks him, you know, why wouldn’t you do that? Why wouldn’t you pursue that? I’m wondering who that is for you. And, um, you know, it’s like they make you just uncomfortable enough, but then sometimes taking that step of faith that you wouldn’t have taken alone.

And I would love to know your thoughts feedback so far on the Passion Meets Purpose podcast. I’d love to know who you think should be our next guest. And here’s how you get us your opinion; [email protected]. That’s our email, podcast at, and then CRISTA. C R I S T [email protected] is how you email us.

And then you can do the whole follow thing and you get it. I don’t need to tell you this stuff anymore. Um, thank you to Northwest University for making this possible. Every two weeks, we release an episode on Wednesdays. Our next one is coming up with Kristin Maher she’s the wife of Matt Maher singer songwriter

and, uh, she is equally talented in her own, right. Having written a children’s book on shame. And we have a conversation about that. It’s one of those children’s books where it’s like, you’re reading it to your kids, but you’re absorbing it all for yourself. So good. Kristen is next on the Passion Meets Purpose podcast coming up in two weeks.

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