There are some conversations that feel a little too loaded, even a little too taboo, to discuss with neighbors, co-workers, friends, or family (sometimes that last one especially). Today we kick off a series called Can We Talk, a discussion designed to help us reclaim the conversation around culture, God, and tech. You won’t find hot takes, click bait, or knee-jerk reactions from our Twitter feed (we still call it Twitter, after all). What you will find is two guys named Nathan who love Jesus deeply, who want others to trust and follow him, and who are hungry to help real conversations get started in real lives and relationships around culture, God, and tech.
Join us as we walk this path ourselves. We hope you are encouraged and equipped to begin these conversations where God has planted you, and as you seek to follow God in reaching all the people he loves so much.
Transcription:
Nathan Sutherland:
Hello everyone and welcome to the Gospel Tech podcast. My name is Nathan Sutherland and this podcast is dedicated to helping families love God and use tech. Today, we’re doing a little something different. We’re kicking off, I think it’s going to be like a little side project passion situation. We’re joined today by Nathan Betts. Welcome, Nathan.
Nathan Betts:
Yes, thank you. Good to be here.
Nathan Sutherland:
And we’re going to be starting this conversation on what does it look like to redeem the conversation around culture, God, and technology. We don’t have a fancy title at this point. We’re working, we’re brainstorming, workshopping. But I guess, to get us started, I want to have Nathan introduce himself. So would you tell us a little bit about yourself, why you’re here on a podcast where we’re talking about something like redeeming this conversation and I guess, what should listeners know about you?
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, I think so much of how this came to be is conversations, friendship, and actually realizing that not everything, but a lot of what we do, is driven by Jesus.
Nathan Sutherland:
You and me, we do?
Nathan Betts:
Yeah. You and I, I think, especially-
Nathan Sutherland:
You and I, thank you for the grammar there.
Nathan Betts:
For what you do when it comes to tech, is a wonderful thing. I think for me, as I come back a bit and look at, okay, what do I do? I think probably approximately 15 years now, I’ve traveled around North America and the globe presenting the message of Jesus Christ. I put in the words of beauty, attractiveness of Jesus to different facets of culture. When I look at the groups to whom I’ve spoken, yes, church conferences, schools, youth groups, but also unique spots like say, in the big tech sector, business boardrooms to policymaking spaces. But all of that is always a space in which I’ve been presenting the message of Jesus to the questions that people are asking in those particular contexts. So certainly, a sense of dauntedness in all of it, but also certainly, a feeling of inspiration that Jesus actually, is profoundly, not only important, but good news into those spaces, albeit depending on the context, enormously complex context. I’ve certainly spent some time in and out of the past read, and right now I’m working as a speaker, writer-
Nathan Sutherland:
Right here out of lovely, northwestern United States.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
Okay. But there’s a couple of things, ’cause you’re not from this area, unlike myself where I just have the moss just ingrained in my bones. Where are you from? Yeah, tell us a little about that and your family.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, so I’m born and raised Canadian. What I often say is, if you prick my skin, I still bleed maple syrup.
Nathan Sutherland:
Do you still say, “door,” though? That’s really the question.
Nathan Betts:
Door? Well, I say sorry.
Nathan Sutherland:
Sorry. Tuke?
Nathan Betts:
I can say… Yes, absolutely. Tuke, 100%.
Nathan Sutherland:
Okay. All right.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, I think I might say, “Aye,” a bit, but if it comes out, then definitely people say, “Oh, Canadian.”
Nathan Sutherland:
See we brought it up, and you just set out and-
Nathan Betts:
Right. So, yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
… You have Canadian.
Nathan Betts:
So there it is. So actually, I am American citizen, but you can take the boy out of Canada, but you can’t take the Canadian out of the boy. So I am dual citizen, but born and raised there, north. I mean, Americans would think of it as Northeast because it’s just where I grew up at Borders, New York State. So it gets proper winters, the four seasons. Summers can get-
Nathan Sutherland:
Early winter, late winter, deep winter and summer. Those are your four.
Nathan Betts:
Right, yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
Yeah, okay.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah. And humidity. For Pacific Northwesterns humidity happens a bit, but no, no. You have to go out there and then you get the humidity. I loved it growing up there. So I grew up in a place called St. Catherine’s, which is close to Niagara Falls, a great area, gorgeous part of Canada, and that’s where I grew up. I grew up in a Christian home, but really encountered Jesus when I was a teenager. And shortly after that, I mean months, if not maybe a year, give or take, I felt the call to be an evangelist. And I didn’t know the fullness of what that meant other than I just knew, man, I want to tell people know Jesus. And mentors of mine, particularly my uncle there, who was very close to me, he said, “Look, if you want to do this seriously, you need Bible and theology under your belt. That’s got to be your foundation.”
So he suggested a couple of places. One was Moody and another one was a place called Tindale, now known as Tindale University. When I was there, it was called Tindale University College. Anyway, Christian liberal arts University, great spot where I did Bible and theology. I’m very grateful for that time and honestly, my vocational pattern, it’s not necessarily the way the crow flies, so to speak. It wasn’t necessarily this clean A to Z. I felt called to be an evangelist. So I actually did go and study. I did a bachelor’s degree in religious studies, a lot of theology and biblical studies. But then after I did that, I felt utterly useless as an evangelist. So I just got a job. I worked at Gap clothing store, and then I worked for the Toronto Blue Jays baseball club. My apologies to anybody who is not a Blue Jays fan and their legion.
Nathan Sutherland:
A couple of people were like, “And we’re turning it off.
Nathan Betts:
But the reason why I mentioned that is, it’s not incidental. I worked on the ground crew there, and if you can imagine-
Nathan Sutherland:
Like raking the dirt? What did you do?
Nathan Betts:
Oh yeah, absolutely. We were called ground crew, but basically, we were just guys who worked with dirt and clay. I worked in the pitchers mound for three years, and then I did home plate and all of that, meaning repairs, repair work, repairing all the holes and the cleat holes and making it all, pounding that in again, and then getting it ready for game condition. But that was really key for me because it was in that environment in which I learned and gathered confidence in engaging people who, they weren’t hostile, but they were just not interested. It wasn’t like people had these hostile or vociferous antagonistic comments against Jesus or Christianity, they just didn’t care. I mean, all of us guys, at the time we were in our early twenties, more interested in, well, what guys in their early twenties are interested in. And it wasn’t that.
Nathan Sutherland:
So not a lot of deep theological conversations happening around the water cooler? That’s what they’re telling me?
Nathan Betts:
Right, exactly. But the interesting thing is, what I discovered there is, often people think of apologetics and it’s this kind of cerebral, or often people think of it as the philosophical arm of theology or the theological arm of philosophy. But either way, it’s this thing, people are, they have long beards and their-
Nathan Sutherland:
Ivory towers, the whole thing.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, and it’s not practical. That’s the main thing. It’s not relevant to me. And what I discovered there is, apologetics is profoundly relevant because it’s simply explaining why you believe what you believe.
Nathan Sutherland:
I was just going to ask you, so the definition for apologetics then, ’cause you said evangelism, is saying that we’re sharing this good news, but apologetics is… Say it again for us.
Nathan Betts:
Okay. There’s so many things. This is what I’ve done for years now, but what I’d say is, one of my professors was a guy named, his name is Alison McGrath, just retired from Oxford, and he actually had a great way of saying it. Apologetics is simply sweeping away the debris that covers the truth so that people can actually have a clear view of the truth, and that is Jesus. There are loads of comments that come to mind when I’m asked what apologetics is, but part of it is, Blaise Pascal, for instance. French mathematician, in his book Pensees says, “Make it attractive. Make good men wish it were true, then show that it is.”
And that’s in so much depth, and now that’s intellectual speak maybe, but that corresponds to Jesus. People were so interested in what Jesus was saying, not just because he was a great and incisive conversationalist, but because there was a beauty to him. There was an attraction that people were like, “Man, I want to hear what this guy says.” And Pascal really touches the nerve of that in saying, yeah, the content of Christianity is profoundly good news, but probably the on-ramp to that, is people seeing a life that’s well lived and something that’s beautiful and basically, causing people to say, “Man, that’s interest, that’s beautiful. Tell me why?”
Nathan Sutherland:
And so in his case, like mathematics, he’s using numbers and truths about the universe to be like, and this is beautiful because there’s a creator. It’s not a beautiful accident. Like, “This mathematics works because of a greater [inaudible 00:08:58].” Now let’s have that conversation. So you were doing that, you realized apologetics was effective in the Toronto’s organization then?
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, and here’s the thing, right? What I discovered there is, to what you said, we weren’t having these heady, oh my goodness, get out words like metaphysical and all these. No, no, we weren’t having them, but we were having apologetics conversations. We just didn’t know it. So for instance, I’ll give you one example that’s maybe past PG, but at the end of a home stand, maybe I’m oversharing here, but a lot of guys would go to, whatever you want to call it, they go to strip club. I’m not sure what the word now is colloquial, but if it’s an adult… The point-
Nathan Sutherland:
Adult entertainment, like whatever the euphemism.
Nathan Betts:
The point is, it’s a spot where actually, no Christ follower should be even thinking about. All the guys were going to this club at the end of the home stand and they’re like, “Hey, Nathan, you’re coming?” And I said, “No, no, I’m just going to, I’m going home.” So there was only one other guy on the crew at the time who they’re like, “Oh, well, we’re going,” except this one guy and me. And he’s like, “Well, since you’re not going, I can take you to your apartment.” So I live in the area and I’m not going out with the guys. So he’s driving me home and in that conversation, this is apologetics exhibit A. He says, “Hey, so tell me, why aren’t you going? For me, I’ve got another job. So I got to get up early in the morning. That’s why I’m not going. Why aren’t you going?” That’s the time. That’s showtime for apologetics, because I’m explaining why I’m not going. But also that’s a spot of why I believe what I believe and I failed. It was like-
Nathan Sutherland:
Yes, I wasn’t expecting that.
Nathan Betts:
And it’s okay to fail because I think you learn. But in that moment, I-
Nathan Sutherland:
From lack of prep, from being nervous, from… Why did you fail, when you say you failed?
Nathan Betts:
I think it was like, I didn’t know how to say it. I also, I think it was a part of it was lack of courage. There was pressure to be cool. And if I just say, “Well, because I love Jesus,” and I thought, “Oh, it’s going to come across as some kind of Victorian guy who’s completely in the wrong space.” And so I said, “I’m not into that stuff.” And it is like, well yeah, okay, true. True, I’m not into that stuff, but it’s more nuance and really it was a cop out. But the point, what I’m trying to say here is, apologetics, the issue is this. It’s not whether we do or engage in apologetics full stop. Well, not full stop. The second part of that is, everyone has an apologetics and I think C.S. Lewis made this point in a roundabout way. He said, “Look, it’s not about whether we engage in apologetics or not, the issue is,” and everyone has an apologetic, “Is it a good one?”
In that case, my apologetic was pretty poor. But that, all of a sudden now, I think, in that moment, I remember it inspired me and challenged me. I remember leaving that conversation and going into my apartment at the time, thinking, “Man, that was an opportunity.” And for some of us, we might not have those opportunities on a daily basis, but if we are following Christ, there will definitely be opportunities. The question is not, will we engage in apologetics? No, the issue is, we all have an apologetic, but is it a good one?
Nathan Sutherland:
Yeah. We’re all attempting to sift the dust away from truth in our lives. And this is everyone. Like atheists are trying to sift the dust away, unless they’re really the hardened, Christopher Hitchens was no longer trying to sift dust away from truth. In fact, on a debate I watched of his, he’s like, “No, if I met God, I would spit on him.” If he knew this was God, Creator of the universe. He wasn’t an atheist, he was an anti-theist and that is a different category. But the rest of us are looking for, I want something true. I want something meaningful. I want purpose, hence our conversation.
So you go from Toronto though, before I let us dive into the culture side-
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
… And at some point, get to professional speaking and meet your wife and end up, abandoned out here in Southern Alaska. So talk to me about, and you can go as much or as little into that as you’d like, but I would love to hear less than that. And the audience, who knows, I mean, we’re 200 plus episodes into hearing Nathan’s life, so other Nathan now gets to share.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, so I was encouraged to apply something called… At that point, I’m in my third year working for the ground crew, major league baseball club ground crew, and I had started youth pastoring at a church in the Niagara area there, loving both. Hybrid in very different spaces, in a very churchy environment, and then the ground crew, which is alpha male locker room, and you’re basically working for an entertainment group.
Nathan Sutherland:
The ground crew’s also like an alpha male environment? Do you overlap with the athletes? I’m just not picturing it.
Nathan Betts:
It was, because we have a locker room and just picture 14 college guys lifting stuff, running around, doing that, working outside-
Nathan Sutherland:
Chest bumping and grunting and throwing things.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, a bit of that. Now, of course there was, I should say that there was a professionalism. We did work in the public as well, but in our 20 somethings at the time and…
Nathan Sutherland:
Yeah.
Nathan Betts:
Anyway, so at that time, I was encouraged to apply for a program that, it was called the Oxford Center for Christian Apologetics, and it was run via Wycliffe Hall in Oxford at the time, and it was a one-year study of Christian Apologetics. Intensive certificate program. And I applied to it, not thinking that I’d be offered a place, and then I was. And so, I actually left something in Niagara, those two jobs that I loved. I loved working with students, investing in people’s lives. I left and I studied apologetics for one year there in Oxford, England, and I stayed on, I got to know a person there, a great guy named Michael Ramson who was the European director for Robbie Zacharias International Ministries. I stayed on, I worked with him and traveled throughout Europe and North America and was mentored by him for a year. But that second year when I stayed on to work for him and learned from him, I met my wife, Brittany. Brittany was studying apologetics that second year, and we met each other. And actually, just a quick footnote, we actually met in C.S. Lewis’ house.
Nathan Sutherland:
Oh, what? Okay, I didn’t know that.
Nathan Betts:
So yeah, that second year, it’s a student house that’s run by the C.S. Lewis Foundation out of Redding, California. And they’ve basically, it was a restoration project taking that house and basically restoring it back to what it was like when C.S. Lewis lived and all the Inklings and Tolkien, and I think, who else would be there? Warney would’ve been there, but also, I think, Barfield, I might be getting names wrong, anyway. But anyway, all those guys were there, the Inklings were in the common room there, and it was a beautiful and amazing opportunity. But the biggest thing of all, was I met my wife there.
Nathan Sutherland:
That’s incredible.
Nathan Betts:
So let’s see, after that, we got married in 2009 down in Bend, Oregon. We moved back to London where I did my master’s and still thinking I was on track to do something in the field of evangelism and apologetics, whether that be in a church, whether it be maybe at a university setting, whether it be for a nonprofit.
And so I ended up doing that. I worked for just over 10 years in our Canadian office out of Toronto, four years, and then, six years out here in the Pacific Northwest, part of our US team, working as an [inaudible 00:16:29] turned speaker, apologist writer with Robbie Zacharias international Ministry, doing that stuff globally and just loving it. And that wrapped up in 2021. So that’s sort of giving a bit of a whistle-stop to it.
Nathan Sutherland:
It is, yeah.
Nathan Betts:
But as I said, it wasn’t necessarily clean. Some guys would do undergraduate, Master’s and PhD and boom. For me, it was very much, I did my undergraduate then really just bumbled my way along, trying to figure out, God, what are you doing? And then did some studies there, some mentorship programs. Came back, worked more in Canada, got married, go back to England, do further study. So yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
Yeah. No, and don’t worry because in good company, I mean, not a lot of people start pre-med, go to law school and end up a middle school teacher who starts a nonprofit. So that’s the arc you’re competing with over here. But I love that you were willing to share all that because that is really what we’re trying to get at and these conversations about redeeming the conversation around culture, God and tech, it’s not we’re here to deliver every right answer. So you and I aren’t two Nathans who now are going to fix the planet. Instead, we’re two Nathans who love Jesus and have seen God work in each of these quirky little spots. And we haven’t even talked about our crazy little humans yet, but we’ll save that maybe for another day. But that’s the experience. Just that Toronto example was so solid of, that was a spot where you’re like, “All right, and I belly flopped bad. How do I get better?”
Yes, you have the playground comebacks, where you’re like, “Oh, this is what I would’ve said.” But more than trying to get that zinger in your head as you fantasize, I do, at least I fantasize about being just the world’s best evangelist and people hearing a single sentence and being like, ” …And I love Jesus now.” In a perfect world, that would happen. It doesn’t, so how do we do it well? How do we do it with our kids when it’s just like, if you ever want an environment where it doesn’t go great, it’s with kids. So let’s transition to the first part of the first conversation then, as we go, “All right, we know who you are,” and if you guys haven’t listened, go back to a previous one or one where Anna’s on it and have her tell you about me.
But let’s then talk a little about, what does it look like? I guess, what do we need as kind of our base layer foundation when we talk about, let’s redeem the conversation around culture. Can you unpack that a little bit for us about what do we mean with culture? How does one redeemer restore such a thing? And as parents who are specifically looking to talk to here, adults and specifically adults with kiddos, how can we begin that for when we haven’t been trained at Oxford when we haven’t had 10 to 15 years of apologetics work?
Nathan Betts:
Yes, I think for all of us, no matter where we are, I mean it’s a matter of accessibility. Okay, how does this, I could say that of you, there’s certain things that you’ve done. I would just think, “Man, I can’t do that. But how can you make it possible so I can reach out?” I think for all of us, no matter what space we find, no matter where we are vocationally, whether you’re listening now and you’re a full-time mom or you’re an engineer, a doctor working behind the desk or a cashier, the question still is, how do we remain faithful to Jesus? What does faithfulness to Jesus look like? Because the fine print is going to look different, but the bottom line still is, okay, “Jesus, how can I be faithful to you in all of this?”
And I think it starts when you talk about culture, Nathan, we need to at least, the starting point is not only, it’s almost like twin feet here. One, understanding who Jesus is becoming very clear on our knowledge of God. That’s crucial, but also, I think John Stop was the one who once said, he has a Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other. And the idea there is, he has solid grasp of this God, trying God revealed to us in Jesus Christ. But he also is aware of what’s happening, and the other narratives that are sort of orbiting around him. Because so much of what we do when it comes to our children, to our colleagues, to our friends who we’re wanting to embody this faith, it’s a matter of translating. Translating the scriptures, translating Jesus effectively, into words that are accessible and make sense to them. So first of all, we need-
Nathan Sutherland:
Let me stop you right there, because really what you’re saying is, if I were to repeat it is, the idea of redeeming the conversation around culture means understanding what our culture is saying and then Greg Koukl style, taking it and saying, what’s the claim and is it true? Right? That’s what we… We want to equip parents, and that’s my heart behind this. And I heard you just say that right there. Like, “Yeah. We’re going to have our a Bible and we’re going to know the verses and we’re going to have our scripture and we’re going to understand sound doctrine, and we want to make sure we know the newspaper.” Because like you said earlier, when apologetics is sweeping away the dirt, we got to sweep the dirt far enough away to make the word of God clear. And people have their own little mounds.
Kids are seeking truth in all sorts of terrible lost areas, especially digitally. That’s my passion, obviously, is the tech side, but our culture is looking for truth. And when they miss, it’s not necessarily because they’re trying, it’s ’cause they think this thing will bring life. And the idea of parents, and what I heard you saying is parents, the apologetic approach here of redeeming this culture isn’t, fix them. Like we’re going to have good enough rules and now we’re going to get it right, but expose it, show the lies for what they are so that you can raise your kids up so that you can see truth. Is that accurate?
Nathan Betts:
Yes. Yeah. I think when I think of this, I think that we need to come to grips with the fact that we are living in strange times.
Nathan Sutherland:
That’s fair. That’s a fair euphemistic…
Nathan Betts:
If we don’t, it’s almost going to be this constant butting up against this wall. But I think we need to first of all, concede that we are, as one person put it, these are not normal times. So the sooner we come to grips with that, the sooner we can more meaningfully engage our culture and even, those around us. I was thinking how to describe this culture, and I came across this line by the late rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, in his book Morality. I quote here, he says this, “I believe that we are undergoing the cultural equivalent of climate change, and only when we realize this will we understand the strange things that have been happening in the 21st century.” And then he says, “In the realms of politics and economics, the deterioration of public standards, of truth and civil debate. And he goes on and on. Go ahead.
Nathan Sutherland:
And what does it mean? I mean, that’s-
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, I was going to say, so much of what that means is, if nothing else, what he’s saying there is, even if for some of us, oh, we might poo poo the whole thing of global warming. The idea there is, this didn’t just happen overnight. When we have all these cultural conversations in which people are asking questions about things that we would, not too long ago have said, “Are unquestionable. Why are we even discussing this? This is not a question mark. Are we not clear on this?” And apparently, at the public discourse level, we’re not. Well, what Jonathan Sacks is saying there is, look, this didn’t happen overnight. This has been putting in my own words here, this has been a slow burn. And going back, we are still seeing a lot of postmodern thinking right now.
And what I mean by that is, and when we’ve talked about this before, postmodernism, I think, can best be described more than anything else as a mood. If people, try to pin down, okay, what is postmodernism? Okay, we can put it to philosophers like different existentialist philosophers who were really proponents of this, like Jean Paul Sartre, Jacques Derrida, others, but that in a way, don’t want to go in the weeds, which I sort of already did. But the idea there is-
Nathan Sutherland:
You said postmodernism, the weeds were there.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, the idea is, this moment just didn’t happen like, “Oh my goodness, 2020” or Covid or some public policy-making that happen in 2020, and now we are having this conversation. No, no, no. This has been decades, if not longer, in the works. So it’s helpful to understand, I think, how we got here. Also, interfacing that with Jesus, because it’s not like it caught Jesus or God off guard. Like, “Oh my goodness, what do we do about this?” No, no, it’s not like… But for us to be strategic and constructive and incisive in how we embody Jesus, how we represent him, I think it’s on us to also understand something of our culture and how we got here.
Nathan Sutherland:
So then as parents, and I think we should probably wrap up this portion of the conversation, like right here, ’cause we have a firm introduction to the culture side-
Nathan Betts:
Right, yeah, yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
… I feel like, right there. But to put a bow on it, then you’re saying the premise behind this conversation that parents can really latch onto, is the fact that we live in a culture that is, in your words, postmodern, which is a mood. And I mean, I would love to nod along with that, but I think if I were to interpret that, would you be comfortable saying that postmodernism is a vibe then? Can I put a Nathan Betts seal of approval on that statement?
Nathan Betts:
Maybe we can do that. I don’t think that’s actually a stretch, because so much of it is feeling. That’s why when we hear different ethical decisions, the words that are used are, “feeling.” And here’s the thing, the scriptures and Jesus are not, he never poo-poos or puts a strike through emotions. But what we do gather from scriptures is this, emotions and feelings are not always trustworthy. So they’re a part, they are an integral part of the human experience, but they’re also flawed. So we have to be mindful of them in accompaniment, in conjunction with everything else.
Nathan Sutherland:
Yeah. So this was this week with my children, where someone was having very big feelings about something and I was like all on my, “The heart, above all else, is not to be trusted, child.” And my wife lovingly stepped in and I was like, but doesn’t mean it’s not real. And we do see Jesus validate, I understand this is how this feels. And there’s truth beyond that. And I think when we talk about culture, if we could just get that. Listeners, as we’re talking about this conversation, how do we redeem a conversation around culture? We recognize that what the culture feels, is real to them. What our children feel, is real to them, that doesn’t make them right. It means that it’s real.
Meaning, this is what they’re experiencing, this is what they’re going through, this is what they believe they need to react to in accordance, which means the dust you have to brush off isn’t, “Don’t feel that way,” but instead of, “Hey, here’s why that real feeling is being caused by something that’s unhealthy or another misunderstanding you’ve got or needs to be exposed to the light and love of Christ.” Because whatever’s drumming up that mud, that confusion, that dust, whatever the metaphor continuation would be for the unearthing of gospel truth, it’s muddy in the waters. It’s confusing in their minds and hearts, and it is causing them to act incorrectly. And the best, most loving thing we can do is expose them to the truth and love of Christ in action and in scripture.
So that’s kind of my hope in this cultural conversation side is, “Hey, let’s talk about…” So here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to end this episode. We’re going to jump in next time, and are you cool if we jump right in on the postmodern to modern to… As parents, we won’t get too theoretical. We’ll go, all right, what does it mean for TikTok? What does that mean for what God has become in our culture and why this is a slow burn and what my kid should expect on the playground or at the grocery store or when they watch their show, who has a questionable premise? Does that work?
Nathan Betts:
Yeah, let’s do it.
Nathan Sutherland:
Okay.
Nathan Betts:
That’s great.
Nathan Sutherland:
All right. Listeners, if you enjoyed this, let us know. Right now, we don’t have an email for this show ’cause we don’t have a title for this show. So right now it’s just [email protected], or Nathan at… What’s your email?
Nathan Betts:
You can just go to nathanbetts.com.
Nathan Sutherland:
Nathan Betts:
Well, you can get me, there’s contact information there.
Nathan Sutherland:
Oh, go Nathan Betts?
Nathan Betts:
Just nathanbetts.com, my website.
Nathan Sutherland:
There you go. Two T’s?
Nathan Betts:
Yes.
Nathan Sutherland:
Two T’s.
Nathan Betts:
Yeah.
Nathan Sutherland:
Awesome. Then let us know if you’ve got questions, if you have areas you’d like us to run with this, that’d be awesome. And then, share it with your friends, if this is beneficial. And please join us next time as we continue this conversation about how we can redeem the conversation around culture, God and tech.
