Sherri’s counselor is in the house. Yep, her actual counselor. You’ll learn about Kathy’s experience being married for 42 years and now navigating life as a widow. How do we focus on and contemplate and meditate on the things we do have? Is Jesus actually enough? All this and more as we dive into episode 1 of this new season of Snacks & Good Company focused on navigating singleness in church culture. As we look at the experiences of people in the single space, the message is loud and clear…You are not alone!
Special thanks to Vision House for sponsoring the Snacks And Good Company Podcast!
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Transcription:
Dr. Kathy Martin:
CS Lewis said, no one ever told me, because he lost his wife that he adored. He said, “No one ever told me how much grief looked like fear.” Probably many single gals who maybe were not even married or whatever, single, have a level of fear of future. What’s going to happen to me? Where am I going with this? It’s a very real thing.
Sherri Lynn:
Hello, friends. Welcome to Snacks and Good Company, brought to you by Vision House. I am your host, Sherri Lynn. This is season two. If you joined us with season one, you’re in for a big surprise because this is very different. Season one was about younger moms and getting advice from older moms. This season is about being single. I get so many messages, emails, calls from single women and their challenges navigating the single life, specifically in church culture, so I wanted to tackle that. I am single, and so I thought, Hey, why not talk about it? My co-host will be joining me soon.
Her name is Angelique Struthers. You will absolutely love her. I have known her for quite some time and she is single, and she agreed to join me during this series, so she’ll be up in just a little bit with us.
I want to say that this is specifically for women because I don’t know how to be a single man. I think that journey is very specific. I hope someone does tackle that in a podcast series. I just wasn’t going to be the person to be able to do that. If you’re a single man, you may get something out of this, but yeah, it’s mostly for women.
If you are listening to this from last season and you are married, I still think you’ll find it enjoyable and entertaining. If you have single friends, please share this with them and tell them to subscribe and download, because I know they’ll get a lot out of it.
All right. Going to start with our first interview, it is with Dr. Kathy Martin. She is a psychotherapist in Southern Florida, and she is my counselor. I asked her during a session, we were talking about me being single and some of the challenges that I have, and during the session I was like, “Kathy, will you join me on a podcast series?” And she so graciously agreed. I think you will see why I love her so much and why she’s been so instrumental in my life. I’m going to jump right into it. You’ll find out all you want to know about Dr. Kathy Martin right now.
It is such an honor to have Kathy Martin here with us. Full disclosure, you are my counselor. You have been a blessing to me that I can’t even really put into words.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Well, you’re a blessing to me, darling. A great sweetheart.
Sherri Lynn:
Really?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yes, absolutely. Oh my goodness, you are.
Sherri Lynn:
Be honest, when I walked out the first time, you weren’t like, “Nut case.”
Dr. Kathy Martin:
No, no.
Sherri Lynn:
No?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Oh, no. Because you bring deep questions, Sherri. No, seriously.
Sherri Lynn:
Well, thank you.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
You really do in my counseling practice, thank
Sherri Lynn:
I talked about it on here actually, the first time that I came to you was because I was realizing that I was processing what happens when my mother’s not here anymore, and how am I going to … What am I going to do, how am I going to … I wanted to start the process of that before, not trying to put my mother in a grave, obviously, but I was trying to emotionally understand that.
I’m a church kid, Kathy. I always say born on a pew, literally out of the maternity ward directly on a pew. his is part of this podcast for me, is truth because that’s really, really what I receive when I’m with you. I just remember that first session of you saying things that I already know, but you just need someone to say truth to you. I remember you talking about taking your thoughts captive.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Amen.
Sherri Lynn:
But the way you said it to me is you said, “Oh, well, you’re not taking your thoughts captive.”
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Sounds like me.
Sherri Lynn:
You know that defensive thing and you were like, “Yes, I am. Yes, I am taking my thoughts captive.” Then I was like, “Well, no, I guess I’m not. I guess that is why I’m spiraling is because I’m letting that go into imagination.” I just remember that truth and then thinking, well, that’s what you need. You need truth. Truth is not a vacuum from what I can tell, meaning it doesn’t exist in a vacuum, meaning I don’t get that little bit of truth for that, and then that stays there. It just started to permeate all of my life and the part of me being single and living a single life, it trickled into that like okay … I call it romanticizing, meaning, oh, if I just had somebody, then this would be that, or that would be that. Then that same concept of take your thoughts captive. Don’t let imagination grow. Is that really true? Speak true things to yourself. I just used that same concept that you gave me for that. It was like, oh, well, that applies everywhere.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
In every area of our life.
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah. It’s been such a blessing for me. When I was doing this, I was like, “Oh, man. We need the same kind of truth for this.” First I want everyone to kind of get your story. You would consider yourself single?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Obviously. Yes, [inaudible 00:05:52].
Sherri Lynn:
So just give everybody a little bit of your story about that, please.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
You got it. You got it. Okay. Happily married. 42 years. Great marriage. By the way, great marriage does not mean without problems because you’ve got two sinners together, of course, you’re going to collide once in a while. The key is we worked on them, we worked through them biblically and had a wonderful marriage. My husband died in my arm, died in our bed. No fun. I’m 11 years a widow. I miss him every day.
Sherri Lynn:
I’m sorry. How long were you married?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
I was 42 years married.
Sherri Lynn:
42 years.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
I’m an old gal, Sherri.
Sherri Lynn:
I started doing the math in my head. Okay.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Go right ahead. I know. I’m an old gal, but I have a very, very good life. I have a good life. Miss him every day, great life. It’s what we do with our pain, it’s what we do with our problems, that’s the key to a good life.
Sherri Lynn:
How did you process that from losing him, that beginning part, that grief of … Did you blame God?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Oh, no. That I can say, I never once … See, I’m a biblical ga;l. I never once blamed God or was angry at God. Why? Because Psalm 139 says, “All the days ordained for you were written in his book before one came to be.” When you use the truth of God’s word and the Bible is full truth. Whenever you go right to the truth and right to the Bible, you have a comfort. It’s real. It’s true. No, it wasn’t God. Before my husband was born, the Lord knew he was going to eat too many of those Big Macs and the Lord knew his date was coming and I wasn’t going to change it, as much as I could sneak under his car seat and look for those bags of McDonald’s or Dunkin, it didn’t matter. It just didn’t matter. Unfortunately, that was the truth, but I never once blamed God, not once.
Sherri Lynn:
Can you take me through a little bit of what that was for you?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolute basket case initially. Very, very difficult, because you’ve had two people become one, and I mean, you’re split in half, two becomes one, and then when half of that one leaves, it’s like you’re cleaved right down the middle, and so you’re gushing blood. CS Lewis said, no one ever told me … He lost his wife, that he adored. He said, “No one ever told me how much grief looks like fear.” I have to say, it puts a fear in you, probably many single gals who maybe were not even married or whatever, single, have a level of fear of future. What’s going to happen to me? Where am I going with this? It’s a very real thing. Now I’m going to say it has to do with biology. Certain chemicals in the body kick in when you go through some of that fear, and it does cause difficulty. Yes, I had a lot of fog brain, we call it fog brain. If you ever talk to any widows, they have a foggy brain. Their brain is really about 50% not working. Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
Really just shutting down or just …
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Literally, you read a sentence, you don’t know what you read. You read a paragraph, you don’t know what … It was a terrible time of trying to read anything. It’s just part of the process, but you go through it and the key is you keep going back to the Lord, keep getting on your knees. That’s the key.
Sherri Lynn:
Was there a moment where you’re like, “Okay, I feel like I’m coming out.” How long did that take?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
You don’t want to know this answer.
Sherri Lynn:
I don’t.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
I asked one of my friends the first year, when is the pain going to stop? She said, “O, Kathy, I hate to tell you, it doesn’t stop. You learn how to work with it, how to adapt to it,” and that’s exactly the truth. The pain didn’t stop. I think it was probably five years a widow before I finally felt like my name is Kathy Martin, and I didn’t feel like I was half of somebody. That’s because 42 years, everything you do in 42 years, you go to Publix, everywhere you go, you’re thinking about him. It’s hard.
Sherri Lynn:
This is interesting to me, because I was talking to young ladies, single young ladies, and this kind of dream of I don’t want to be alone. That’s the fear I have as a single woman. That’s why I want to get married. I said to them last night, unless you and your husband pass away at the exact same time …
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Like Thelma and Louise are talking? We all want Thelma and Louise. Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
Unless we plunge off the cliff together.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
I told them, even on the Titanic, she held onto the thing and he went to the bottom of the ocean. Somebody is going to, in fact, be alone. It goes back to being truthful. I told them, I remember Brandt posted something on Facebook saying, what is your biggest fear? I remember how many married women were saying fear of being alone. I thought, well, wait a minute, then why am I scared of single … The noose is all of our fear then.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yes, exactly.
Sherri Lynn:
Right?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yes, to some degree, it really is. Well, it goes back to Genesis. We were meant to be in community, that might be broader community, but also it has to do with … I think unfortunately the culture tells us the key there is being with one other person that’s going to take care of us, that’s going to make us happy.
Sherri Lynn:
That’s a lie. That’s a cultural lie.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
It’s cultural lie. It’s a cultural lie. Yes. Yes.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. Did you make a decision to say, I’m not going to marry again, or I’m not going to look for that?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yeah, actually I did, but if God wanted it, absolutely. I’m always open to God. I trust him a whole lot more than I trust me. Was I interested in another person? I’m still in love with my husband, but I’m very happy. I have a very good, full, happy life, but I’m still in love with him every day. The thought of another person doesn’t float my boat.
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah. Yeah. I want to bring this one thing up before I forget it because it hurt my heart so much when the girl said it, and the reason why I wanted to have you on, the reason why I wanted to do this is because, and I’ve talked to you about this in my sessions actually as being single. I said, “I get so many emails, I get so much correspondence, and I can’t always relate because, as a single woman, I’ve been so privileged.” I’ve had a very robust community and family and men around me to surround me. I’ve been very privileged and very coddled, quite frankly, and spoiled. All my best friends are single and always have been right?
I’ve just had this thing that many single women haven’t had, right? I’ve had guys that have been interested and I’ve said, no, I’ve made the decision. There are women who want it desperately, Kathy, to be married, to have children, to be stay-at-home moms. This is all that’s been in their minds, they haven’t even been on a date, and now they’re in their late twenties, early thirties, mid-thirties, and now there’s this pain, this ache. What do you say? I don’t know what to say. I know God cares. I know he sees them. I know the church is not saying anything other than, put yourself out there more.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Right. Right.
Sherri Lynn:
What is there to say? What is there to say?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
First of all, I ache for them because I’ve had so many of these beautiful, sweet gals in my office, and they do hurt mainly because they’re focusing on what they don’t have rather than what they do have. It becomes obsession for a lot of people. That is problematic because really now we’re talking brain stuff. People who are depressed are always meditating and not just thinking about it, not a casual thought, truly meditating on what they don’t have rather than what they do have. When I contemplate what I don’t have any longer with my husband, I go to Philippians 4:8, “Finally, brothers, whatever’s true … ” Okay. The truth is, I don’t have them. I say this to all these gals out there who are single, wait a minute, here’s the truth, I don’t have [inaudible 00:13:34] … Here’s the truth, I don’t have a man in my life.
But then it goes on and says, whatever’s true, whatever’s a noble, righteous, lovely, pure, admirable praise with the [inaudible 00:13:42].” Meditate on all those things, put it into practice and the God of peace will be with you. I turn it around, I say, “Oh, dear Jesus, I am born in the United States. I have a wonderful family. I have wonderful friends. I’m in my home. I love my job. I love my work. You bless me.” By the time I finish listing to the blessings, to be honest, I’ve got serotonin on my brain and dopamine on my brain, and I literally am turning my feelings around.
Many of these gals who are single and in pain, they’re buying the lie, unfortunately that sometimes the church tells us, sometimes the enemy tells us, and sometimes I get gals in the office and they feel so guilty, because why? Well, I know God is sufficient. God is sufficient, but then they feel wretched and guilty, because they don’t feel it. Well, to be perfectly honest, and this is hard to say, but in many ways God is not sufficient. I say that, not as a heretic.
Sherri Lynn:
All right. Kathy’s going to absolutely kill me for cutting in there, but I am, right when she calls herself a heretic. You all are probably like, “Oh my goodness. Sherri got somebody on here saying that Jesus is not sufficient.” That is not the point she’s making. She’s actually making a fantastic point, and it has helped me so much in my singleness journey. I just want to cut there, and then we’re going to come back and just let the point kind of breathe and just hold its own space.
Plus, this is called, guys, a broadcast teaser, because I’m a broadcast professional. This is what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to cut and then tease for the next segment, and that’s supposed to make everybody stick around for the next segment. I’m doing that too. I’m letting the moment breathe, and then I’m doing my whole broadcast situation with the teaser and everything.
What Kathy’s point is with that is coming up and trust me, it is so good, you’re going to want to write it down, you want to Tweet it or X or whatever they call it now, all of that, you’re going to want to do that. That’s coming.
Also, we’re going to talk to some of our friends. You’re going to hear them throughout the series. This are some of our single friends, and we are going to ask them, what’s your number? When I say we, I mean my co-host, Angelique Struthers is going to join me in the next segment, and then she will be here for the rest of the series. What’s your number? No, not your phone number. I told you, it’s not that kind of podcast. It’s what your contentment number is. What does that mean, you may ask, well, you’ll find out. See, another teaser. I told you I’m a professional. All of that coming up and more here on Snacks and Good Company.
Friends, listen, you know who I’ve been studying lately? Lydia. It’s a single lady in the Bible, in the book of Acts to be specific. She was what the kids call a boss. I don’t know if the kids still say that, but anyway. She was a boss, not because of her business or her wealth. To me, she was a boss because of the way she used her resources to care for others. I am a big, big believer in that. That’s why I wanted to tell you about Vision House. They’re our sponsors for this podcast series, and what they do is come alongside families experiencing homelessness, and they don’t just give them temporary housing and other resources, they give them hope.
Most of the families they help are single moms and their children. The reason for homelessness ranges anywhere from loss of employment to domestic abuse. Vision House is Christ-centered, and it doesn’t take a lot to help. I was talking to them, I was really shocked. They said $60 provides a night of safety and care for these families. That includes safe housing, food, professional care, and more. 60 bucks? That’s it? I went to their website, got their Venmo, and I just did it. I mean, 60 bucks? Sure. I thought I’d bring it to you just in case you want to take care of a night for a family as well. Why not? What do you say? Want to be a boss like Lydia, using your resources to help homeless families and give them hope? You can do that. Check out Vision House right now while you’re thinking about it. Check them out, visionhouse.org.
Welcome back to Snacks and Good Company. I’m Sherri Lynn. Before we get to Kathy, I kind of left you hanging with her, Dr. Kathy Martin, my counselor, she’s a psychotherapist in South Florida. She was talking about sometimes God is not sufficient. I know that all of you have begun your email that you’re writing to me to tell me how dare I at sherri@snacksandgood company.com … Please continue that email. Do know that Kathy has a wonderful point that she’s going to finish in just a moment.
Before we do that, part of this podcast series, no matter what topic we are discussing, is about having a lot of different voices, like a lot of different people talking about their experiences and their journey. I think we are so isolated in this culture and in church culture, quite frankly, that you can feel alone in how you’re experiencing things. I really learned that in the first series. I had so many young moms just saying, thank you for saying it. They said, “I heard this young mom say this or that, and I have experienced that exact same thing, or I felt that same way. Thank you. Now I know that I’m not alone.” That’s really what this is all about.
Gathered us some single friends, some single gal pals, and also some listeners to the Brant Hansen Show, and the Brant and Sherry Oddcast who agreed to join us and talk about their journeys of singleness. Yeah. You’ll be hearing a lot from them throughout the series. Also, my co-host, Angelique Struthers will join us in these upcoming segments and she’ll be with us throughout the podcast series.
In this next montage, we are going to talk to Bridget. She is our tour manager actually for the Brant and Sherri show when we go live and do the Misfit Tour, she’s our tour manager. We’re going to talk to Mary Beth. Mary Beth is the daughter of Tammy Hamilton. If you listen to the first season, and you heard Tammy Hamilton, she had a lot of wisdom, an older mom who was helping young moms. Tammy Hamilton’s daughter is Mary Beth, and so you get to see some of the fruit of her labor, so to speak. Mary Beth is single, and she agreed to join us. Then we have Lindsay. Lindsay is a podcast listener to the Brant and Sherri Oddcast. When I put out there, Hey, can you join us if you are a single woman? She responded, and so graciously joined us. You’re going to be hearing from them throughout the podcast series, but right now we asked them, what is your contentment number? Guys, this is a great check, a great self check that you can do and talk about it with your friends.
Where am I on the contentment meter in this season of life? One being I’m curled up in a ball in the corner crying and eating six sleeves of Thin Mints, and 10 I am on the Mount Rushmore of contentment with Paul and Jesus. That’s the spectrum from one to 10. Where are you? What is your number, we’re asking, your contentment number. Where are you in this season? Then we ask, what makes your number dip? I didn’t want people saying, I’m an eight, I’m a nine, I’m a 9.2 and then you feel like a loser when you’re listening like, “Well, okay, I’m an idiot at two.” I wanted you to feel like, no, everybody’s not at a nine all the time. We asked what’s your number, number one, and then what makes your number dip? When does your number go down?
Angelique and I start with our friend Bridget. She’s talking about her contentment number
Bridget:
One to 10 contentment over the last eight years, it goes in waves, right? Today I would say I’m an eight out of 10 contentment.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. What were you yesterday?
Bridget:
Maybe an 8.1.
Sherri Lynn:
Oh, you were a little higher yesterday. Okay. All right.
Bridget:
No. I’m kidding. No, I would say that it’s been a pretty even eight out of 10.
Sherri Lynn:
Well, let me ask you this. When do you feel the most not okay? Is there a season, is there a time, is there a specific … When does that crop up on you?
Bridget:
Yeah, sure. Just a little bit about my story and journey and where I am today is that a few years ago, I moved away from my community, my friends, my family where I had been for years, and my journey brought me to Michigan where I am today. I’ve been here for going on five years. I would say, when I was in Pennsylvania, my life was very full and busy. I was constantly being a support and there for family and friends, and being single never really crossed my mind. Now that I’m here in Michigan, there are times where I’m not as busy. And then it crosses your mind and you think, “Gosh. It would be nice actually if I had somebody to spend time with.” When I head back for holidays, I’m like, “It would be really nice if I was finally traveling back home with somebody,” and then it’s like, “Oh, another holiday. Here I am single again.: Yeah.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. All right. Good. That’s honest. I bet you a lot of people can relate to that. That was Bridget. Thank you so much, Bridget. We’ll be talking to her throughout the series. We’ll also be talking to Lindsay throughout the series. Here she is talking about her contentment number.
Lindsay:
I’m a non 10, right?
Sherri Lynn:
I didn’t have anybody do a non number before. That’s new. Okay, so you’re a non 10. Do have an actual number?
Lindsay:
Yeah. For years I was a one, but I think now I’m a good seven, seven and a half, and I’m loving the seven, seven and a half in this season.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. Seven, seven and a half. All right. That’s good. That’s good. When’s the last time your number dipped?
Lindsay:
I would say probably about two months ago. For a while I was living in the dip, and so there’s been steps for me to walk with God to get out of that, just to see my life and value what I do have as valuable and not Me being as less than or insufficient until … I still had dips, but probably two months ago, where I just kind of fell and I was like, “Oh, man, I fell again. Let me get out of here.”
Sherri Lynn:
Was there something that triggered it?
Lindsay:
Yes. Oftentimes, for me, I’ll see a couple or I’ll be around people who are in love and they’re happy. I’m like, “I really would love that.” It’s been over 15 years since I’ve been in a relationship. I’m in my forties, as I get older, that desire to want to have a family and be with someone, I feel like, is getting stronger. I’ll get caught up in the, oh my gosh, I wish I had what they had.
Sherri Lynn:
Thank you, Lindsay, for being so open and transparent. We’ll hear more from her in other episodes. Now, here is Mary Beth.
Mary Beth:
Today I feel like an eight. I feel like an eight. I’m pretty stoked to talk about the purposefulness in singleness, because I do believe it and I am feeling it right now. If you’d have asked me in December or January, I had a conversation with a friend right around New Year’s where I was just down. It was probably like a two, maybe, specifically in my singleness.
Sherri Lynn:
Only around a two?
Mary Beth:
It was bad. Yeah.
Sherri Lynn:
What was given the twoness?
Mary Beth:
Christmas.
Sherri Lynn:
Not the baby Jesus.
Mary Beth:
No, not the baby Jesus. The culture in Christmas. Just all the expectations.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. Let’s talk about that. Christmas, you were at a two. Well, let me ask this, you all? Is it the Hallmark movies?
Mary Beth:
I don’t know. It probably adds up.
Sherri Lynn:
It’s Hallmark jamming you up. Ooh, Satan is so slick with the Hallmark. That’s the devil. I knew it was him. I knew it was him. That’s why I won’t let him in. I won’t let him in. What was it? Is it the holidays? Is it because it feels like everybody got somebody?
Mary Beth:
It’s all of the above. For me, I have noticed just in the past few years that where I am right now, I have so much purpose in my life and in my work that I don’t feel the pain that’s there, I don’t feel it as much. Then when I take that away and the activities, honestly, and I go and I be around my family who I love a lot, everyone has someone, and there’s a lot of babies who are just so stinking cute. It brings to rest the fact that my story is different. Yeah. That definitely brings up some challenges.
Sherri Lynn:
Gosh. Then that has to be so conflicting, in and of itself. I think that if I was riding high at a eight, I’m putting myself in your shoes. If I’m riding high at a eight at work, purpose, got it. Yay. Whoa. Yeah. Then I come home, I love my family. Big beautiful family. Takes me down to about a six or so because everybody got somebody, I don’t. Then the kids that may bring it down to five, because I’d love to have a baby. Then it’s so conflicting because I want to be with you all, but being with you all has brought me down three. That would bring me down three more, it really would.
Mary Beth:
It is. Yeah. Because even that feels unfair.
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah, it does, because it’s not their fault and you want to be with them. The conflict, if I want to be with you, but being with you reminds me of this thing that is kind of painful, I totally get that. I really do. I can’t solve it. You’re not asking me to, but I do get it.
Okay, Angelique, so I didn’t get your number. Are you near the one? Are you on Mount Rushmore of contentment?
Angelique:
I think for the first time in my life, truly, I’m at probably like a nine or a nine point, something. Yeah.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. All right. I like that. Now how we get all up there. All right. Come on in here now.
Angelique:
Well, since we have a captive audience.
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah. How do we get there?
Angelique:
No, honestly, so definitely in this season, my contentment was already fairly high, but the level certainly raised up and my confidence in that contentment raised up just in doing these interviews and doing this podcast.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. Wow. Wow.
Angelique:
Yeah.
Sherri Lynn:
That’s amazing. That actually is my prayer for single women listening, is that you will get a confidence in who you are in Christ and the walk you’re on right now in Christ and that you are not in a holding pattern to get somewhere and then I’ll be pleasing to them, him or then he’ll love me. I am all I in Christ right now, that I can be content right now. Yeah. I’m grateful that if that did it for our co-host, that that will do it for you too.
Let’s get back to Kathy. Last you heard from Kathy, she said sometimes God is not sufficient. She is probably absolutely mortified that I cut it off there, but Kathy, I did it for a good reason. It’s because I wanted the point to breathe. I wanted it to exist on its own because it was something that she said to me, actually during one of my counseling sessions, and it has helped me with my own contentment in singleness and thriving in singleness. I wanted women to hear it very specifically and that’s why I cut it off. Now we’re going to back it up just a little bit so that you can hear how she set it up. Yeah. Trust me, you’re going to want to write this down and remind yourself of it a lot because it’s going to help you.
Here’s Dr. Kathy Martin explaining why she is not a heretic.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
In many ways, God is not sufficient. I say that not as a heretic, but truthfully, when I am on my knees in the zone with the Lord, I am filled and flooded with joy and happiness, and totally, he’s sufficient. Then I have to get off my knees, go in the house, make my dinner, and I eat alone. In the physical realm, there’s a lack of sufficiency. That’s where these girls are hanging out. They’re hanging out in that part of their life that is empty, alone.
The other thing is, if I could point out, I do believe this, God wants, he allows certain deficits in our life. God knows what it is that will keep me connected to him. I had a great marriage, but were there deficits? Absolutely. Those deficits, some things that my husband could never quite get, I’m sure he couldn’t figure out me, in some ways, it’s the only reason we get on our knees and go to the Lord because God’s immutable, he’s not visible. Why would I bother with God if I could get all my needs met from a man, a husband, even a good husband? We wouldn’t bother with God, nobody would. Whatever these girls are going through, I hate this, but God wants something to keep us coming to him on our knees. Maybe for them that’s what that singleness represents.
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah. This shame that they feel, a lot of them feel.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yes.
Sherri Lynn:
I’ve asked, and I don’t know that I’ve gotten a sufficient answer, because I don’t know if they know it or not, if it is an internal shame or if it’s external factors. Meaning, is it that I feel ashamed that I’m not in a relationship and that’s how I get my value? Or is it external, because the culture says that’s how you are valuable is because you were picked by a man, and you get value from that. I don’t know which one gives us the shame or if it’s a combination of the two.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
What you said is perfect. Look at you. As you explained earlier, you have so many good people around you, good single friends, good family, friends, that has validated you, that’s lifted you up. I don’t think you’ve been in that position of feeling such guilt. I don’t think you have any, I don’t know if that’s between you and the Lord, but truthfully, I think it’s a combination of culture.
I remember my one daughter, I’ll never forget. She went to Yale. Smart kid. Smart kid. I remember people saying, why are you bothering spending all that money, she’s going to be done and be home. I mean, seriously. In other words, the only value they were saying was in marriage and having children. It’s heartbreaking. That is what is out there. Women are heard that message sometimes within families, sometimes in their churches, unfortunately. Certainly, oh gee, getaway from social media because that just screams everything’s about dating. I think combination.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. How do we get out of that shame and not live in that shame knowing, this is what was important for me, knowing that I can get out of it even if you are still going to attempt to shame me. Meaning, if my family still thinks, or the church still thinks, or whoever still thinks that my value and worth is in a relationship or marriage, you all are going to have to go ahead and think that, I’m talking about the way I am, my peace
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
How do I get that?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Okay. Now, first of all, for each person it’s different, but biologically, 80% of everybody’s brain is used for self-talk. Sherri talking to Sherri, Kathy talking to Kathy. What are you telling yourself? Are you telling yourself what the world is telling you? Or are you telling yourself what Christ tells you?
I get people in my office and they’ve got low self-esteem. Okay, well, the truth is, let’s get real here, you’re made out of dirt and the book of James says you’re nothing but a vapor. If you really want to get realistic about it, okay, yeah, yeah, but then when you meditate on the fact that, excuse me, the one who hung the stars in place, who put the moon, if we were a little bit closer to the sun, we would burn up, the one who breathed the soul into each and every individual, the one who knows the hairs on my head.
When I meditate on the fact that this king, king of king, lord of lords, Father God, that he knows my every thought … I love Psalm 139, I turn people there all the time when they’re having self-esteem issues. He knows every thought before we think it. He knows every word on my tongue. When I think about the fact that he died for me, if I were the only one on the planet, he died for me, that self-talk lifts me out of that place, if I truly meditate on it, on the truth. Once again, it goes back to the truth, Sherri, the truth of God’s word.
Sherri Lynn:
So this is intentional intentional work of true thought, meditation, gratefulness, is what I’m hearing, and self-talk.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah. Well first you said big red stop sign. I say that to myself all the time now, Kathy.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yes. Yes.
Sherri Lynn:
Big red stop sign, Sherri. Big red stop sign of where I feel myself going down a road that’s not going to be healthy. Then you said, well talk yourself out of it. Especially for women, when we have our emotions, because a certain time in a month or whatever, it feels a little more raging.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Yeah. Sure. Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
It’s like talk myself out of it. You said to me, “Well, who do you think talked yourself into it?”
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
I was like, “Well, I guess that was me, wasn’t it?”
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Right. That’s exactly right. You talk in, you talk out. Exactly.
Sherri Lynn:
That is psychotherapist, Dr. Kathy Martin. Again, she is my personal counselor. During a session, I just blurted out to her, “Would you come and be on this podcast series?” She so graciously accepted. So you’ll be hearing wisdom from her throughout the series. By the way, I suggest her book God and Psychobabble. It’s a wonderful book and you can get that wherever you purchase your books.
All right. Please listen, coming up. This is one of my favorite parts of this podcast series, one of my absolute favorite parts. It’s a question that I came up with, all on my own, that I am sure many people will hate. I want you to know that I already know that, but it brings me such joy. We are going to address this question every single episode, I asked every single person that participated in this series, this question. It’s just so good, guys. Stick around. You’re going to love it. If you don’t love it, you’ll just love that I love it so much. It’s coming up on Snacks and Good Company.
Welcome back to Snacks and Good Company. I am your host, Sherri Lynn. I am not sure how I came up with this question. I asked all of our friends, all of the experts that joined us during this series, doesn’t matter who you were, I asked you this question. I think I came up with it during a comedy sketch, actually, come to think about it. Anyway, I call it Debunking Boaz. Oh my goodness, it just makes me so happy. The various answers we got, not just the answers, but the expressions and their reactions to the question, it’s just …
Okay. Let’s just get into it. We’re going to start with Bridget and Angelique. I’m going to set it up with them and we’re going to get their answer to this very, very wonderful question. Before the question, here’s the setup.
The Book of Ruth is this beautiful poetic book that God gives us to show us, the kinsman redeemer, that Jesus is going to be. It’s a precursor to what he will do on Calvary for us, how he will redeem us back to the Father. That’s what this book is showing us. It also gives us a genealogy of Jesus, starting with Ruth, and then we go to through David and all of that. We make it into a geriatric Hallmark movie. Now I’m going to ask, and we’ll be asking everyone, a man 40 years your senior, because that’s what we believe, the traditional wisdom holds that Boaz was 40 years older than Ruth.
I’d like to ask you guys now, a man 40 years older than you shows up, in my grandpa’s words, is your last chance.
Angelique:
Oh, Jesus.
Sherri Lynn:
Are you taking that deal, Angelique?
Angelique:
Oh, sweet Jesus.
Sherri Lynn:
This is what they’re selling to us. Everybody, “I’m waiting on my Boaz.”
Angelique:
As soon as you said the name Ruth I just couldn’t stop laughing because I’m like I’m so sick of hearing Ruth and Boaz.
Sherri Lynn:
Listen, I aint mad. Everybody, if you waiting on your Boaz, you listening to this and you watching this, keep waiting. I am not mad. All right. 40 years older than you, Angelique, that’s your last chance. Are you saying, “God, I’m just going to stay single until I get to heaven?” Or you’re like, okay, 40 years older, let’s go.
Angelique:
Yeah. Here’s the thing for me …
Bridget:
Mine’s a quick answer. Mine’s a very quick answer.
Angelique:
No, seriously, the thing for me is, unless God says it, I’m not interested. I’m pretty sure he’s not going to send 78-year-old Boaz over here to be like, Hey. This is your husband.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. Angelique, I just want to be clear. You’re saying to me, if you felt like God said, “Jere is a man who’s two years away from 80 and he’s your husband,” you are going to marry that man? That’s what you’re saying to me?
Angelique:
What I’m saying to you, if God said it, I’m going to do it.
Sherri Lynn:
You are going to do it?
Angelique:
I’m going to be side eyeing him on the way down the aisle, but I’m going to do it, because again it has to be for me. Again, this is me. It has to be what God says. If God says this is what it is, then I’m going to be like, “You know what? I know [inaudible 00:42:28].”
Sherri Lynn:
I’m going to keep going because we know Bridget’s answer.
Bridget:
I’ll see you on the other side [inaudible 00:42:38].
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. See why I love this question so much. Angelique says, if God says yes, this is the man, this is my husband, she’s going to do it no matter what. Bridget said, Jesus, I’ll see you on the other side, we’ll talk about it on the streets of gold, because I’m not going to be able to do it, Jesus. See, why I love that so much?
Single girls, listen to me. This is such a fun question to ask each other. Just have your friends over for snacks and Christ approved beverages, amen, and have fun. Ask this question, I guarantee you it’ll be a great night.
Now, listen, I asked Kathy, you heard her refer to her age in previous segments, right? I asked her this question and her answer and her response and reaction so awesome. Then in signature Kathy form, she went deep with it right after answering it and she starts talking about soulmates. Is that a real thing? I know so many single women, Jesus following women who are waiting on their soulmate. Is that a real thing? Kathy gets into that right after she answers my ridiculous question.
I’ve asked every girl, and so I’m going to ask you, Kathy, because you are single. If God showed up with a man that’s 40 years older than you …
Dr. Kathy Martin:
He’d be hooked up to an intravenous, that’s what he’d be. Okay. I get the point. I know. Oh God, no.
Sherri Lynn:
I was just trying to see how many …
Dr. Kathy Martin:
I get it. It’s all right. It’s all right. If I were quite a bit younger, yes. If it’s a God thing …
Sherri Lynn:
Yeah, that’s what some girls said, if it’s a God thing, other girls were like, you know what, I’m going to have to tell Jesus in heaven I’m really sorry.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
I’ve got to pass. Here’s the thing, I say that, how do we know it’s a God thing? Okay? Here’s the thing, god gave you a free will. I don’t feel, and I don’t believe this God’s got one particular person he’s going to plug you in with. No, he gave you a free will. He loves diversity. Notice how many beautiful flowers do we have? How many beautiful birds do we have? Thousands and thousands. Okay. He gave us a free will. All he says to us in God’s word, when you get married, it’s got, you cannot be unequally yoked, which means do what you want to do as long as it fits my will. If that older person does not fit in what you would like, why do we have to say it’s necessarily from God? It’s from God in the sense that he’s a Christian. Yeah, there are probably far more numbers of Christians around that are closer in age.
Sherri Lynn:
That are less than 40. Yeah.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely. You’re going to laugh at this. I had one of my friends who’s actually in her forties, she’s quite a bit younger. She was looking to date this guy that was, I think, 66. I said, “What are you doing? Darling, you can do it, be pushing that guy in a wheelchair before long.” I laugh at this, I have clients who have struggled with this, who married somebody a bit older, and when you’re in your forties, fifties, it’s quite posh, and maybe he’s got money, he travels, but then all of a sudden he’s 85 and she’s wanting to get out and do some traveling. Be prepared, if you choose to do that, it’s not necessarily God pushing you, you’ve got a free will. Do what you want to do.
Sherri Lynn:
Well, I want to get on that road just a little bit there. The soulmate route is something that has really been given to us by culture. Then the church gave it to us, and then we made just stories that really … We made it out of, not Joseph, I’m sorry, Isaac and Jacob and Leah and Rebecca, Rachel, all of these things, we made soulmate stories out of all of this. I don’t see that there. These were all arranged marriages, but boy, oh boy, did we make soulmate stuff out of that? Now we got people running around thinking that’s even more pressure. You feel pressure because you’re a woman and they tell you you’re supposed to be married, you’re supposed to have kids. Then you feel pressure, because not only that, but there’s some kind of one person that you’re supposed to be doing all of that with and you’re missing him. You know what I mean?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely. It’s a lie. It’s a lie.
Sherri Lynn:
Okay. You don’t believe in soulmates?
Dr. Kathy Martin:
No, I do not believe in that. Do I believe that God already knows who you’re going to marry? If we want to call that a soulmate, go right ahead. He knows all things, but we could have … Let’s say, okay, you get a gal maybe 25, that could be a thousand guys that would be perfectly matched in the sense that they are Christians, right?
Sherri Lynn:
Right. You won’t be unequally yoked.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely. One quick story. I had one guy way back and he was a Christian dating a gal that had a lot of issues, a lot of problems, but his desire was to make money and to support missions in huge ways. He said, “I don’t know, should I be with this girl or not?” I said, “y=You know what? Totally fine. It’s in God’s will, but do you want to have something that’s going to hold you back possibly from doing the job, the goal that you want to do, biblically, as far as do all these missions.” That was it. He went out, he decided not to be with her. He married another girl that was just a beautiful Christian, but was a whirlwind of busy and he was able to just pursue what he felt God had led him to do. Why? Because he didn’t have to spend all his time …
If you’re going to get married, you’ve got to know that you’ve got, you’ve got to put that person first. Okay? Biblically, you’ve got to put them first. If they’ve got a lot of struggles and issues and hangups, you’re going to spend time with it, that’s part of marriage. He was so free because he married a girl with that drama and he just pursued what God wanted him to. Would that girl have been the wrong choice in the beginning? Absolutely not the wrong choice, but was it the best choice?
Sherri Lynn:
Oh, boy.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
See, different. It might be permissible to marry her, but was it necessarily beneficial? That’s the Bible verse.
Sherri Lynn:
Oh, man. Now that is freeing to say, this may not be a wrong choice, but this is not the best choice right now.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Sherri Lynn:
To sit and think about that, this is why the pressure is so difficult, and I want to help alleviate the pressure off of women because if you feel the pressure, you’ll be out there making not best choices.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Exactly.
Sherri Lynn:
Because you feel pressure.
Dr. Kathy Martin:
Absolutely. 40 years older because somebody in the church said, this is the perfect match for you. Listen, they tried to talk Poland into doing some things that he didn’t want to do, and he was like, “No, God didn’t tell me that. Maybe he told you that, but I’m not buying it.”
Sherri Lynn:
Kathy said, “No, no. You can say God said if you want to.” I love her so much. She is so wonderfully wise and biblically centered. Again, she is my therapist and I’m so grateful that she agreed to join us and that I get to share her with you. She’ll be on throughout this series.
It’s time to wrap up this episode. Next episode we’ll be talking to Lisa Anderson from Focus on the Family. Here’s a little bit of what she will have to say,
Lisa Anderson:
Man, there are lonely married people. I mean, it is like loneliness is not equated to singleness, it is equated to lack of relationship and lack of connection. In the body of Christ, we should go after that whatever season we are in relationally.
Sherri Lynn:
You don’t want to miss Lisa Anderson next episode, trust me. Also, we’ll be talking about when your contentment number dips, how do you get past the dip? That’s what we’re calling it. Past the dip. See Snacks and Good Company, contentment number dip. Do you all see how I’m tying this in professionally as a broadcaster? I’m doing this for you. We’ll see you on the next episode of Snacks and Good Company, friends.
Snacks and Good Company is presented by Purposely produced by me. Co-hosts for this series is the one and only Angelique Struthers. Music is done by Matt Mason of Mason Haven Music. Thank you, Matt. Art designed by Notoria Marketing, sound engineering by Garrick Whitehead. Social media by Janessa Schueler. Multimedia recording was done in Studio Me in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Make sure you subscribe to this so that every episode is in your inbox. Send it to a single person that you know, that you think it’ll be a blessing to or an encouragement to. Maybe she’ll laugh, maybe she’ll cry, but at least she won’t feel alone. Make sure you share this series as well.
If you have any comments or questions, you can always email me at Sherri, S-H-E-R-R-I, @snacksandgoodcompany.com.
We’ll talk to you next time, friends.
About Sherri:
Sherri Lynn has been a radio professional for well over a decade. She has her degree in Communications as well as Biblical Studies. Sherri is a writer, comedienne, and former youth pastor. She wrote and produced a comedy DVD entitled “The Very Funny Church Comedy Show: Together We Laugh”, wrote and starred in the stage play musical “The Bold and the Sanctified” which starred American Idol Winner Ruben Studdard, and authored the book “I Want To Punch You In The Face But I Love Jesus.” She is the producer of The Brant Hansen Show and “The Brant & Sherri Oddcast.”
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