The Cast of the Christmas Story: Mary

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Mark Holland:

The cast of the Christmas story series is sponsored by World Concern and the Global Gift Guide. Find out more at globalgiftguide.org.

Speaker 1:

The Cast of the Christmas Story.

Mark Holland:

And we continue with the Cast of the Christmas Story, and we have one of the most well-known people in the Christmas story to talk about today. We’ll be talking about Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Jill. Jill Young. And you are… I wouldn’t say the mother, but you’re the chaplain, anyway, of the staff here at CRISTA Ministries. Hi Jill.

Jill Young:

Hi there.

Mark Holland:

Do we call you Pastor Jill? I’m not sure. Are you a pastor?

Jill Young:

I am a pastor.

Mark Holland:

You are a pastor.

Jill Young:

People here tend to either call me just Jill or Chaplain Jill.

Mark Holland:

Chaplain Jill, okay.

Jill Young:

Yeah.

Mark Holland:

And how long have you been with CRISTA?

Jill Young:

Just a little over a year and a half.

Mark Holland:

Okay. Came in on the tail end of the COVID stuff?

Jill Young:

Yeah, exactly.

Mark Holland:

And we had a little bit of an interim chaplain staff person during COVID, but you’re the first one that’s really taken this on in a full-time way.

Jill Young:

Yeah. Yes. And I love it.

Mark Holland:

You love it?

Jill Young:

I love being able to get to know the staff in all the different ministries, from media to world concern to camps and schools and senior living. And I’m so moved by the various ministry roles with the people. The different personalities, and just getting to sit with them.

Mark Holland:

It is a lot of personalities.

Jill Young:

Yeah, it is.

Mark Holland:

How many people at CRISTA these days?

Jill Young:

Domestic staff, about 750.

Mark Holland:

750. Wow.

Jill Young:

Yeah.

Mark Holland:

It seems like it fluctuates a lot.

Jill Young:

Yeah.

Mark Holland:

Well, I’ve been here 34 years now, so I’ve seen a lot of… but I’ve not seen a person in your role in a long time, anyway. I always think of the chaplains who work with the senior living community specifically, but you work with the staff.

Jill Young:

Yeah. And it’s not a super common position at nonprofits. I really commend CRISTA for seeing the importance of that.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. Well, you’re very vital. Everyone just says, “Hey, Chaplain Jill,” when they see you in the hallway, and like to see coming. Your big smile. Now, you’re married to a pastor though, too.

Jill Young:

I am, yes.

Mark Holland:

And what’s your husband’s name?

Jill Young:

Matthew. Matthew Young. He’s pastor at Mukilteo Presbyterian Church.

Mark Holland:

Mukilteo Presbyterian.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

So you hear about it all. You work at a religious organization, you are a pastor’s wife. So you hear people’s pain and joy, and they come to you first with whatever’s burdening them.

Jill Young:

Yep. Definitely.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. Well, we are talking about a woman who took what could’ve been a real burden in the Christmas story and turned it to blessing and received it wonderfully. And that of course is the humble servant, Mary. Tell us about some of your first observations about Mary and who she was.

Jill Young:

Yeah. Well, I think one really interesting observation about her is just to remember how she was a poor, humble, young woman. Teenager.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. Teenager. People don’t realize that. How young? Maybe 15?

Jill Young:

Yeah, probably right around there. And we often, in our Christmas pageants or art that we see of her, or movies, we might picture her in the white gown and the blue silk and all that, but really, she was likely in just earth-toned, simple clothes. She probably had to work from a young age helping out with things. So she didn’t have any high status at all in society. And she was from Nazareth, which-

Mark Holland:

Can anything good come from Nazareth?

Jill Young:

Yes. Exactly, exactly. This was not a high income area. So I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about her, is how God chooses the humble, the lowly.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. And she gets this announcement from Gabriel that she’s going to bear the Messiah. And tell us a little bit about her reaction and how that maybe is pretty amazing.

Jill Young:

Yeah. Can you imagine getting news like this? And she is overwhelmed by it. It says that she’s distressed hearing the news. Even just imagine having Angel Gabriel appear to you. That in itself would just be overwhelming. And I can only imagine a mix of emotions, of just joy and fear, and being told that you are going to bear the son of the Most High. That the Lord God will give him the throne of his father, David. That his kingdom will never end. How could you even take that in? So that’s really her first response is… and then the angel reassures her and tells her that she will be highly favored among women.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. And very Jewish young woman.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

So this is something her and her family have all been looking forward to, the coming of the Messiah.

Jill Young:

Yes. Yes.

Mark Holland:

And of course they all thought that the Messiah would be a ruling person who’d whip up on the Romans and whatever, and set things right.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

So again, she realizes this is quite a responsibility, to say the least.

Jill Young:

Exactly, yes. The most, highest honor, really, a woman could have would be to bear the Messiah, this awaited figure that her people are looking to to save them.

Mark Holland:

Do you think the Jewish people knew that the Messiah would have a supernatural element to him? That Jesus’ father would really be the Holy Spirit, would be God?

Jill Young:

Yeah, yeah. I do not think they could’ve imagine that. There were hints in the prophecies, but boy, that would’ve been mind-blowing to try to comprehend.

Mark Holland:

And to comprehend the stigma that this is going to bring into her life.

Jill Young:

Yes, exactly.

Mark Holland:

Talk about that and how that…

Jill Young:

Yeah. And this is… of course, for her to be pregnant before married, especially in this time and as a woman, for a woman, this would’ve at least meant public disgrace and being sent out of her family’s home, and could’ve very likely met stoning by the townspeople. And the person that she was betrothed to, in this case, Joseph would’ve had the right to make that decision of whether she was to be stoned or not.

Mark Holland:

There’s a beautiful part of the Christmas story where Mary responds to this news from Gabriel, and she does what’s called the Magnificat, a song that she… do you think she’s sang this, or was this just a poem? Or what do you…

Jill Young:

It could’ve been. And really, she pulls from scripture. It shows that she knew her scripture. And this comes after this amazing encounter with her cousin Elizabeth, where she discovers that Elizabeth is also pregnant, and with a special child as well. And-

Mark Holland:

John the Baptist.

Jill Young:

Yes, John the Baptist. And so they have this in common, this special pregnancy, but Elizabeth really gives Mary a blessing and says that the Holy Spirit is already present. Her little baby, John, has lept in her womb because the Holy Spirit recognizes the one in her womb. And so in this moment of joy, Mary comes forth with this song. And this song really exemplifies what I was saying earlier about how God chooses the humble. And so Mary is really an example of this. So I’m just going to read a few lines here from the Magnificat.

Mark Holland:

This is in the book of Luke.

Jill Young:

Yes, from Luke 2. “He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble. He has filled the hungry with good things, but He has sent the rich away empty. He has helped His servant Israel, remembering to be merciful.”

Mark Holland:

That a part of the Magnificat and Mary’s response to this news. Let’s move into what we all the… the crash. The nativity scene. Set this up a little bit. What was this probably, historically, really?

Jill Young:

Likely it was a cave, because this is where often the animals would’ve been kept. And really, in some sense, I was reading the rooms that could’ve been available to her, a guest room, would’ve been in homes that probably didn’t have a lot of financial resources. So actually the cave might not have been such a bad place, actually. It actually may have been… it would’ve provided some warmth and shelter and safe place, but certainly not ideal. I’m sure she would’ve preferred to be giving birth in her own home, not in a strange place and among animals.

Mark Holland:

But they were on a journey though, right?

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

And trying to get home in time for the census.

Jill Young:

Exactly. And so another challenge here that she has is, while pregnant, having to travel. And we know that’s not easy even in modern times sometimes.

Mark Holland:

Right.

Jill Young:

But riding on a donkey, being pregnant, and not sure where you’re going to stay and where you’re going to give birth. So this was a challenging experience for her.

Mark Holland:

But she went through with it. Who all do you think was… was it just Mary and Joseph there alone in that stable?

Jill Young:

Yeah, I think that’s what-

Mark Holland:

At least initially. We know other people visited them eventually.

Jill Young:

Exactly. Exactly. We had the shepherds visit, which was… wow. Can you imagine having these visitors say they’ve seen angels, and just proclaiming praises and wonder? And it’s at that, it says that Mary just treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. Lots to ponder. Lots to treasure.

Jill Young:

Yes. Yes.

Mark Holland:

Another experience after Jesus was born, Mary, they went to have Jesus circumcised. What was that? The seventh or eighth day when that happens for a young child?

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

And she had an interesting experience there with the baby Jesus.

Jill Young:

Yeah. And just to make the point, too, showing that Mary and Joseph were devout Jews. They were following the purification rights, and they brought a sacrifice, a pair of doves and two young pigeons, which would’ve been what those of lower income could bring. They couldn’t have afforded a lamb. So again, lower income, but following the Jewish law. And they encounter two really special people there, Simeon and Anna, who both-

Mark Holland:

I don’t remember Anna.

Jill Young:

Yeah.

Mark Holland:

Is Anna Simeon’s wife or no? Another person?

Jill Young:

Yeah, she’s another person.

Mark Holland:

Okay.

Jill Young:

She’s a woman who spends her days praying and fasting in the temple and has just dedicated her life to this, and is privileged, then, to get to see the Messiah.

Mark Holland:

So what happened with Anna? Tell me about that.

Jill Young:

Yeah. So she comes and sees the baby, and offers prayers over Mary, and just confirming Simeon’s prophetic words over her.

Mark Holland:

So they meet Simeon first.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

And he has the whole encounter where he goes, “Well, thank the Lord. I’ve gotten to see the Messiah.”

Jill Young:

Yes, exactly.

Mark Holland:

“God gave me a promise that I wouldn’t pass away before I saw the Messiah.”

Jill Young:

Exactly.

Mark Holland:

And he recognized that little child as the Messiah.

Jill Young:

Amazing. Amazing.

Mark Holland:

And the same thing happened with Anna, too?

Jill Young:

Yes. Yep. Very similar. Yeah, so in Luke 2, right after we hear from Simeon, it tells us that there was also a prophet named Anna. And she was very old. She was a widow and she spent her days worshiping in the temple, and fasting and praying. And so at that moment she came up to them, to Joseph and Mary and the child, and she gave thanks to God. And it says that she spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem. So she became a witness of this child that she saw.

Mark Holland:

Tell us what Simeon said, too. You have a quote here from Simeon.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

Simeon had some words for Mary that we’ve come to remember here, even in this time.

Jill Young:

Yes. It says, “Simeon took him,” and this would be Jesus, “In his arms and praised God saying, “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you now dismiss your servant in peace. For my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared in the sight of all people a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to Your people Israel.””

Mark Holland:

Also, in some of your notes here, you say, “This child is destined to cause the failing and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul, too.”

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

So right there, he… and this is what Simeon knew. He was going to be powerful and meaningful, but there was going to be some problems.

Jill Young:

Exactly. Exactly. And this, again, we see with Mary. God isn’t promising her an easy path just because she’s said yes and gets to bear the son of the living God in her own womb. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to be a suffering-free time.

Mark Holland:

And then they also have to flee Bethlehem or flee the area because of Herod.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

And what was that like, to have to take the child to Egypt for a time?

Jill Young:

Yeah. Again, more disruption. Maybe when she was just feeling more settled and secure with her little one and getting in some rhythms… we moms know how challenging that can be, to get in rhythms with our babies. And now, with his little one, he might’ve been age two by now, but they, yeah, had to suddenly flee following what they had been warned. And so in a sense they were refugees for a time in Egypt

Mark Holland:

Refugees.

Jill Young:

Yeah.

Mark Holland:

And we believe, too, that there’s evidence that Mary had other children after Jesus, after her and Joseph were married.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

And what do you think that was like, for her to be the mother? Talk about a favorite child.

Jill Young:

Yes, exactly.

Mark Holland:

You don’t want to show favoritism, but she had to obviously struggle with that a little bit.

Jill Young:

Yes, most definitely. And I know that must’ve been hard for those children as well.

Mark Holland:

Do you think they knew?

Jill Young:

There’s indication in scripture that they had trouble believing that their own brother could’ve been the Messiah. And I think, for them, not until after the resurrection do we know that any of his siblings become believers.

Mark Holland:

So we look at the very important life of Mary. As Protestants, we believe Mary is very special. She certainly is not divine, but she definitely had part of a very divine plan.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

No doubt about that.

Jill Young:

No doubt.

Mark Holland:

And a peculiar burden that only she really… the only woman who has ever lived can understand, obviously.

Jill Young:

Yes. Yes.

Mark Holland:

So we have to have reverence for Mary and what she accomplished for all of us in bearing the Messiah.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

But what are some lessons that we can take from Mary’s life and apply to our situations today?

Jill Young:

Yeah. I think one is that we can just be so encouraged by how God can take someone who is not a person of great importance in society’s eyes, someone who’s humble, someone who is of low position, and work His amazing plans. And that’s true for all of us, for you who are listening to this right now, just to know that your life can make a difference and be part of God’s deep plans and purposes for the world. None of us are too small for this.

I think another thing that we learn from Mary is just to continue journeying with God even when things get difficult. They certainly did in her own life. They started out difficult with the challenges of the pregnancy, fleeing to Egypt, and continued to be. Imagine watching your son in his ministry. There were high times but there were low times. There were times of rejection, and then eventually seeing your son crucified.

So I just think it’s so encouraging to see how she stayed strong and kept… even in the painful situations, was faithful and kept being a willing servant to God, even though she didn’t fully understand things. And so I think that’s the other thing that I really am inspired by with Mary, the way that she did ponder things in her heart. She did wonder. And I think all of us ponder and wonder and come to know things over time. She and the disciples are examples of that. As they journeyed with Jesus, it was a gradual process of understanding more. And they didn’t fully understand until the resurrection, but we know that Mary was among those Christians in the early church who received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and continued to follow him. So just that beautiful journey, I think, can inspire us in our own journeys.

Mark Holland:

Yeah. You call it an unfolding process in a lot of your notes that I’m reading.

Jill Young:

Yes.

Mark Holland:

And that that’s okay. You don’t know it all right up front.

Jill Young:

Exactly. It’s an ongoing journey of faith that we’re privileged to be on.

Mark Holland:

Well, for people who are listening to this today then, why don’t you pray for people who maybe are in that unfolding faith and in that process, and maybe going through a dark valley right now? Lots of things to be concerned about in our world, maybe in our personal lives. And how do we keep it on?

Jill Young:

Yes. Let me pray for us.

Dear Jesus, we just thank you for the example of Mary. We thank you for her willing heart of saying yes to you. We thank you that you chose her in her humble beginnings, in her simple faith, and that she became an instrument of the greatest work ever, of bringing your son to save us, Lord. Of coming as a human to us. And I just pray right now for those who may be struggling and feeling like their life doesn’t have a purpose or a plan, or that they are insignificant in some way, or unseen. And I just pray, Lord Jesus, that you would encourage them and show them how even now you are calling them into your deep purposes. How you have a plan. How you have a way and a calling just for them. And I pray, Lord, for those who may be just in a really tough time in their life. Maybe they’re struggling with an illness or a tense relationship or with a financial strain.

And whatever might be something that they are feeling burdened with, just to know, Lord, that you see them and you are with them, and you will bring them through, just as you brought Mary through some really challenging circumstances and made her stronger, and used those difficulties to grow her, and grow her in her understanding of faith.

And so I also want to pray for those who today may just really have a lot of questions. Questions about the Christmas story. Even doubts and wonderings. And Lord, I pray that they would experience you coming alongside them and showing them more and more as they’re ready to understand and get to know you, Jesus, more and more. There’s so much you have for us, God, to understand of you as we walk with you. I just pray for each one listening now. In your most holy name, we pray this. Amen.

Mark Holland:

Amen.

The cast of the Christmas Story series is sponsored by World Concern. You can give a gift with a lifetime of impact. Your gift will meet the critical need of a child or family living in poverty. You can give a goat or one of 43 other life-changing gifts today through the World Concern Global Gift Guide. Give life-changing gifts that work together to transform the lives of moms, dads, and children in the world’s poorest places. You can even select a meaningful gift in honor of a friend or a loved one. Each gift transforms the life of someone in poverty. Go to globalgiftguide.org. Again, that’s globalgiftguide.org.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for joining us for The Cast of the Christmas Story, a series on Purposely Equipped. We’d love for you to take a moment and let us know what you think of this series by leaving us a review. For more podcasts to grow your faith, we invite you to visit onpurposely.com. Until next time.